Chinese Class - "to settle for second best" -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
"to settle for second best"
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wai ming -

How would you express "to settle for second best" in Chinese?
(I don't mean accepting something which is clearly unacceptable, just something which is not the
absolute best ie still passable or suitable.)
Are there any 'idiomatic' ways of expressing this concept?

Thanks



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delloy -

退而求其次










skylee -

consider 退而求其次.












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Chinese language - J2ME Mandarin-English Dictionary Suggestions -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
J2ME Mandarin-English Dictionary Suggestions
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Hero Doug -

I'm going to buy a Nokia 5300 tomorrow and want to install a Chinese (mandarin)-English dictionary.

I'm looking for something that I can type in Chinese or English and get the translated word.

I took a quick look on sourceforge but my net isn't working too well right now so it's bothersome.

Anyways, let me know, thanks.



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Shadowdh -

This isnt too bad.. not the fastest (a guess here as its the only one I have found and used so
far) but its pretty good... offers traditional and simplified characters and can look up
eng-->chinese and chinese-->english...

http://www.kugihan.de/dict/chn_eng.html

http://dictionarymid.sourceforge.net/

hope this helps...










doumeizhen -

Mine came with a good dictionary installed. If you look up the Chinese is has both pinyin and the
definition, however, if you go from English you only get characters.

Either way, I am quite happy with the one it came with.










Hero Doug -

I read multiple reviews of the phone and none of them mentioned anything about a dictionary, so I
figured I had better prepare one.

I did notice it said dictionary somewhere but I haven't figured out how to use it yet.

Anyways, if someone knows one with phrases or example usage then please post it.












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Chinese Online Class - Lyrics to song from House of Flying Daggers -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Lyrics to song from House of Flying Daggers
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TefJLives -

Hi all,

I like Chinese cinema a lot, so I thought I'd try to learn some Chinese for fun. I hope someone
here can help me, I want to learn the lyrics to the song near the beginning of House of the Flying
Daggers. Here's a link to it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GxnzABccR40

Here are the lyrics that someone posted on that page in Pinyin:

bei fang you jia ren
jue shi er du li
yi gu qing ren cheng
zai gu qing ren guo
ning bu zhi
qing cheng yu qing guo
jia ren nan zai de

Here are the translated lyrics from another page:

rare beauty in the North...
She's the finest lady on earth
A glance from her, the city falls
A second glance leaves the whole nation in ruins
There is no city or nation that has been
More cherished than a beauty like this

I am trying to work through this, but I'm having some problems. I'm a total beginner, but I'm
happy to look stuff
up on my own if I can be pointed in the right direction. Here is my best guess so far:


bei fang you jia ren

bei(3) = North
fang(1) = Square or quadrilateral, but also a region of China. May be totally off on this one.
yu(2) = in
jia ren(2) = rare beauty?


jue shi er du li

jue = no clue
shi = xi(4) = fine?
er du = no clue
li(4) = beauty?


yi gu qing ren cheng

yi(1) = one
gu = glance?
qing(1) = collapse
ren = her? She?
cheng(2) = city


zai gu qing ren guo

zai(4) = another
gu = glance?
qing(1) = collapse
ren = her? she?
guo(2) = country


ning bu zhi

I have no clue on this line.


qing cheng yu qing guo

Something about a city and a country.


jia ren nan zai de

I don't get this line either, but I think de makes something possesive, or something.

Thank you, any help would be great.



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againstwind -

So here is its original in Chinese:

北方有佳人，bei fang you jia ren
绝世而独立。jue shi er du li
一顾倾人城，yi gu qing ren cheng
再顾倾人国。zai gu qing ren guo
宁不知倾城与倾国？ning bu zhi qing cheng yu qing guo
佳人难再得！ jia ren nan zai de

The author was Li Yannian, the royal musician in Han dynasty. And the beauty in this song was
Madame Li, who was Li Yannian's sister. He wrote this famous song to Hanwu Emperor in order to
recommend his sister to the emperor.

First of all, you need know that, compared to the original, the translated lyrics given by you
aren't precise word to word, which is impossible and unnecessary.

北方bei3 fang1 is north
有 you3 here corresponds to 'there be'
佳人 jia1 ren2 =beauty

绝世 jue2 shi4 means rare or unique on ther earth
而 er2 is a conjunction = and
独立 du2 li4 in modern Chinese means 'independence', BUT NOT HERE. Here it literally means
'stand there alone', which implies the Madame Li was elegant and superior.
So the translated lyrics ‘rare beauty in the North...She's the finest lady on earth’made sense.

But the rest were a little different with the original meaning.
一顾倾人城，A glance from her, the city falls
再顾倾人国。A second glance leaves the whole nation in ruins

一yi1= one
顾gu4 = to look at; to glance
倾qing1 = to collapse; to ruin; to capture; to fall
人ren2 means person, man or woman
The two sentences couldn’t be translated literally, I think. It means once a soldier glanced at
her, he couldn’t help dropping his arm and the city would fall. And once an emperor glanced at
her, he would be captivated by her charm and left the whole nation in ruins.

宁不知倾城与倾国？
佳人难再得！

宁不知 is a sentence pattern as a selective question in classical Chinese.
难 difficult
再 again
得 gain

It literally means ‘ don't know the city falls or the nation collapses. Anyway, it will
difficult to find such a beauty again!’ It gave us a dilemma. She was really a beauty but risky.
However, even so, never miss her!

So this is my rough explanation.










TefJLives -

Great, thanks! That is a big help.

Greg












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Chinese Tutor - Rejected Undefined Submissions - March 26th Batch -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > Adsotrans.com Forum
Rejected Undefined Submissions - March 26th Batch
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trevelyan -

FYI for contributors -- this the list of submissions from the past few weeks that have been
filtered out for lacking English definitions or explanations. It has been a good month for
submissions otherwise - especially pinyin corrections. I'll be releasing a new stable version of
the software and database later today, both of which will find their way to the usual download
spot.

If anyone is interested in adding any of these with corresponding English, the easiest way to do
it is by clicking the "quick add" link on the Adsotrans homepage. Anyone who wants to help out
might try copying and pasting the remaining (undefined) entries into a new post below, so no-one
will need to duplicate the effort. Without further ado:

地利
知彼知己
百战不殆
出奇制胜
通篇
谋略
趣味性
各有千秋
胜战
想想
宜人
之初
促销品
度蜜月
用电
婆婆妈妈
异域
公事
四季如春
生机勃勃
度假村
失散
国度
昨日黄花
打打杀杀
圆顶
窄小
肥腿裤
翘尖
企鹅步
黑色幽默
忍俊不禁
城市之光
摩登时代
大独裁者
珍藏版
香港女伯爵
浓重
万人
我渴望我置身在
置之不理
不争
停滞不前
末席
位列
暂列
白色垃圾
游走
贫富不均
收效甚微
面膜
小幅
听闻
卡通业者
野味
娃娃鱼
有钱人
谈虎色变
偷偷摸摸
生猛海鲜
招牌菜
麻辣兔头
不足为奇
醉虾
名菜
活蹦乱跳
河虾
高粱酒
无奇不有
酒量
鬼怪
地上河
人脑



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roddy -

But: Trying to edit these via quick add gets you an 'already exists' note, which then sends you to
the full edit page in a tiny window.












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Pnyin - Cheese and Smile -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Cheese and Smile
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boredserf -

Today, while hiking in New Mexico, my wife and I encountered a couple Chinese guys. At one of the
scenic spots, we took their photo, and they took ours. I asked what the Chinese word for 'smile'
was, was told 'xiao', said it before I snapped, they laughed, and I hope they got a good pic.

Afterwards, it occured to us that in the US we say 'cheese' not 'smile'. Now, 'cheese' is total
nonsense. I doubt the literal translation is 'cheese'. But, what do friends, family or total
strangers say to each other in Chinese before taking one another's picture?

Just curious.



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liuzhou -



Quote:

what do friends, family or total strangers say to each other in Chinese before taking one
another's picture?

Usually, 茄子 (qiézi) which means eggplant or aubergine and produces the same smile-like mouth
shape.










againstwind -

This is a good question.
Besides, 茄子 sometimes people say 七(qi), which sounds like chee










gougou -

Sometimes, they won't say anything at all, but the person taking the picture will be counting out
loud 一，二... Then, while the uninitiated foreigner is still waiting for the 三，the guy
will quickly snap your picture. When taking a picture, I even had people laughing at me once when
I actually counted till three.










Alhazred -

I'd say that's because you actually smile when you say the word cheese with conviction.

Same way, a photographer recently came where I work for a group picture and he had us say ouistiti
because we do smile when we say that word.










Koneko -

Hmm... The one I normally use is:-

1, 2... 3

As suggested by gougou.

K.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Good stroke order sites? - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Good stroke order sites?
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3






shibole -

yonglin: You can change the stroke order preferences in estroke to match standards in various
places. Check out the preferences. You can even pick the stroke order of "disputed"
radicals/components individually if desired.

So far I really like estroke since it seems to have information for characters that other programs
(like most of the free ones) lack. I just wish it could be integrated into DimSum somehow, and I
wish it had better display options like the option to display the strokes in a sequence of boxes
(like character workbooks) without having to paste an image into another program.

Now if it would automatically generate character writing practice worksheets too that would be
perfect



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Chinese Character - A free magazine 讀書好 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
A free magazine 讀書好
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skylee -

I've just come across a new bi-monthly magazine "讀書好" about books, reading and writers. This
being Hong Kong, the magazine is in traditional Chinese. The articles are short and easy to
understand. If you need something easy to read, then it is not a bad choice.

There is an on-line version (the contents are the same as the paper version) ->
http://www.books4you.com.hk/



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rose~ -

It looks interesting, thanks.












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Learn Chinese online - anyone for BLCU Fall 2007? - Page 7 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
anyone for BLCU Fall 2007?
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Page 7 of 7 First < 56 7






andrea28 -

hey! i just wanted you guys to know that if you want to live in an apartment instead of the dorms,
i found one in 2 days by going on www.thatsbj.com. you can look for places in wudaokou and also
make an ad, it's way better than the dorms! and anything in wudaokou is close to the university.
well, see you guys on the facebook group, great idea by the way!



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Learning Mandarin - CNY superstitions -

> Chinese Culture > Society
CNY superstitions
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geraldc -

Chinese New Year is a pretty superstitious time for my family. As we're originally from Hong Kong
we generally stick to:

Mustn't clean the house on New Years day.
Can't wash or cut hair today.
Shouldn't eat meat today (well for one meal at least).
Buy flowers/pot plants for the house.

My family regard themselves as still fairly rational, as we don't do the washing with pomelo
leaves as some people still do

I know they generally tell people the more normal traditions about wearing red and the hong bao
etc, but do they ever teach you the stranger ones?



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buanryoh -

I thought traditionally new years was a time to clean one's house in order to get rid of all the
bad spirits?

Maybe i have just remembered wrongly!

Marc










phunkyphred -

i think that you're supposed to clean your house in the days prior to CNY, but not on CNY itself..
because you want to clean out all the old bad luck/spirits and have a clean house.

Then the fireworks + offering to keep the old spirits away.


so on new years, you have a clean slate and it will be easier for good luck to come to you.


but, i am new to all this so perhaps i'm wrong!

(i just wanted to join the discussion! : )










got_no_jaffas -

if you eat chicken feet, you will run faster for the coming year & your marathon personal best
times will fall.

i can categorically say this doesn't work!










Koneko -

No sweeping!

But my family always do!

K.












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Chinese Online Class - Dictionary - Traditional Chinese Characters -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Dictionary - Traditional Chinese Characters
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calibre2001 -

I'm presently learning to write chinese using traditional characters and now feel a real
dictionary would be very useful. I started with pinyin and am very used to it. However, I realise
now pinyin usually goes with simplified characters, not traditional. That said, i was wondering if
you folks can recommend me a dictionary (chinese-english and vice versa) which uses traditional
and pinyin. I'm aware simplified chinese dictionaries have traditional characters on the side, but
I find those to be inconsistent.



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atmartin50 -

My favorite dictionary (and that of many learners of Chinese that I know) is without doubt
"Chinese Characters: A Genealogy and Dictionary" （中文字譜：漢英字源字典）, compiled
by Rick Harbaugh. You can check it out at http://www.zhongwen.com, where there is also a link for
purchase on Amazon. Before I bought it in the US, I checked in several of the larger cities in
Mainland China but was unable to find it (maybe it's available in bookstores in Hong Kong?).

Entries can be looked up by pinyin, radical, or stroke count, and there is also a Zhuyin index.
There is an English-Chinese dictionary, too. But I think the true strength of this dictionary is
its organization of character trees---this not only lets you see the root of each character, but
is a great tool for character memorization. Each entry has the simplified version of the character
as well.

It takes a little bit of getting used to, especially if you use it in a classroom setting (or any
setting where a speedy look-up is required), but once you do you'll be glad you tried it out. I
sometimes find myself just browsing through it for the fun of it. Highly recommended. Hope this
helps!












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Learn mandarin - 酒令 Chinese Drinking Games - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Food
酒令 Chinese Drinking Games
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laohu -

I never saw this as a drinking game, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being played as
one. It's called the Mooncake game and involves dice being rolled into a large bowl. Prizes are
awarded depending on the combinations (prizes were originally, you guessed it, mooncakes!). It
think it's only played in Xiamen and surrounding area but maybe wrong,

http://www.amoymagic.com/custom.htm
--about 1/2 way down the page of this nostalgicly oldschool webpage (dial-up anyone?)



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shanghaikai -

There are a few variations to the dice in cup game. While the standard game involves (as described
above) knowing one's own dice and guessing the sum total, there is a reverse version where you can
see everyone else's dice but not your own.

Then there is 7, 8, 9. where you take two dice and a communal glass/shot glass (mixed drink/beer
for the former and hard liquor for the latter...usually). People go around taking turns rolling
the two dice into a cup. If your dice fall out, you have to automatically drink the entire
communal glass (and then refill). If you hit snake eyes, you choose someone to drink and then go
again. If you hit a 9, you drink the entire glass and refill. If you hit an 8, you drink half of
what is remaining. If you hit a 7, you fill up the glass (seems to only be applicable if the glass
is semi-empty). If you hit a 6, you actually reverse the order in which people go around trying
their luck. Anytime you hit a number that requires action, you go again until you hit a number
that doesn't.

One pretty hardcore game is where you take six shot glasses (fill with drink or liquor of your
choice) and one dice. What you roll is which shot glass to drink. If you roll a shot glass that is
empty, you refill and it is the next person's turn. Theoretically, you could take six shots in one
turn, or none (of course). As you can imagine, it can be pretty easy to get drunk off this (though
it depends on what you're filling the shot glasses with).

Have fun!












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Chinese Character - Your Accommodation in China - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Your Accommodation in China
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jak__ -

Wow, some of those rents are high! I guess i'm spoiled living in my giant apt in the styx.

City/Area: Huilongguan, Beijing.
Description: A whopping 138 sq. m. 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, ridiculous living room and huge
kitchen. Came with basic furniture. Theres a third bedroom that stays locked with all of the
landlord's junk in it.
Rent: 2000RMB/mo payed twice a year. Utilities are all extra. Wuye fei paid by landlord. 1-year
lease. Paid a one-time 1,000 RMB fee to a real estate co. for finding it.
No cockroaches, thanfully.
Nice view of the mountains too.

BEAT THAT!!

Oh yea, its in Huilongguan, 1 hour away from anything fun. But a quick bus ride north will take
you to 沙河, the dirtiest little suburb you can find. And if you keep on going you can go all
the way to Changping where they have a water reservoir!!!!



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imron -



Quote:

BEAT THAT!!

I walk to class in under 10 minutes (door-to-door). If you factor in your time as money, how much
time do you spend commuting to/from Heilongguan daily, and how much does that add to the total of
your rent?










jak__ -

hey, i never said i lived here by choice. other factors were involved.

plus i was being sarcastic ;)

But to be fair, it is only a 15 min. subway ride to Wudaokou, and for anyone studying/working in
that area its an alternative.










ajax -

Type of accomodation: Rented apartment.

City/Area: Kunming, Yunnan.

Description: ~90m2, 2001 building, 3br, 1bath, furnished apartment. On 7th floor.

Rent: 900Y a month, originally paid 6 months, plus 1000Y deposit. Lease began
in Oct 2004. I now pay every 3-4 months. Landlord pays all bills and provides
receipts, which I then reimburse.

Location: Off Jianshe Lu. 5 min walk to Yunnan Normal, 10 min to Yunnan Univ,
15 min to Wenlin Jie.

Found via: real estate office

Came with: queen bed, wardrobe, huge sofas, 30" tv, electric water heater and
washing machine. Furniture is decent quality.

Landlord / Building management: extremely friendly, helpful landlord who hasn't
raised rent in over 2 years.

Notes: gate remains open 24h (no need to wake guard after midnight).

This was a good deal when I moved in. Now, similar sized furnished units in this
area are likely to be 1200 or more.










yonitabonita -

Description: 75m2, 2 year old building, fully furnished, dark brown polished wooden
floorboards,open kitchen, modern bathroom, double storey studio.

Rent: 2650Y a month, paid quarterly. Lease started 13 March. Rent includes heating, gas, water,
internet connection, management fee. There was an option for 3000Y per month to include big flat
screen computer. Or 2500 per month without any internet connection.

Location: In a hutong in Hepingmen. There are long narrow alleyways about a minute away. 6 minutes
walk to Hepingmen subway station, 7 minutes walk to Xuanwumen subway station, 10 minutes walk to
Xidan subway, 10 minutes walk to Tiananmen Square.

Found via: Classified ad, direct from landlord.

Lease: One year.

Came with: Brilliant storage space, huge red sofa bed in loungeroom, a very comfortable king size
bed, flat screen tv, DVD player, cable TV, a 5 metre long Jacksonesque oil painting, a few Ming
Dynasty replica pieces. Landlord decorated it to look like a Bondi beach studio with a touch of
China. Some of my walls are lemon yellow. Others are light green. Kitchen was fully equipped with
toaster, kettle, rice cooker. The place came with a years worth of kitchen, bathroom cleaning
products, and toiletries ( soap, shampoo etc). There's even a very slick vacuum cleaner.

Landlord / Building management: Landlord is here in Beijing. She's been really helpful. I drafted
the lease myself. We went through all the clauses carefully and I don't get the feeling there'll
be any big issues. But then it's early days yet.

Notes: Very happy with this situation. I'm waiting for a catch. There's a very intense locking
system on the front door which has me wondering who or what is she hiding from?










venture160 -

yonitabona: That sounds like a steal for Beijing! Is it way off the main street inside a hutong?
is it a old hutong converted into a modern building?










yonitabonita -

Venture 160

I just got lucky. I saw the ad at about midnight, called at 9:00 in the morning, by 1:00am, I'd
handed over 3 months rent, 1 month deposit, and had negotiated, drafted, and signed the lease.
There are good deals out there but clearly they go quickly.

It's in a 6 storey apartment block in an area surrounded by alleyways. I don't think the majority
of hutongs will stay for long. I'm seeing some 拆 signs around. Not loads but that can of course
change overnight. I live in hope.

Main streets like Chang An Jie are very close, though I don't at all feel that I'm in a busy city
area since my immediate surroundings are hutongs.

y










venture160 -

~bump~

Lets get more members to share your housing situation. This could be a great resource for everyone










heifeng -

1 average sized bedrm in a 3 bedroom unit, on 10+ floor, good storage space, secure new building,
friendly staff. I room with 2 local girls and am about a 5 minute walk to the jishuitan ditie, and
everything else I need in the area. 2 bus stops away from bnu. 800yuan/ month. ( rented for 6
months, pay every 3 months, plus deposit of 800 yuan + agency fee about 600 yuan) oh yeah,
utilities about 50-80 yuan per month










roddy -

Bump again, as I've added photos to my original post - taken just as I was moving out, hence
absence of . . . anything.












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Chinese language - "Making Connections" Listening Comprehension -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
"Making Connections" Listening Comprehension
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CheeSaw2006 -

Has anyone heard of this, its a book with cds focused on improving Mandarin Listening
Comprehension. If anyone has used it, I'd be curious to know what you thought of it. Im debating
purchasing it.



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bomaci -

I have used it. I think it is rather useful in the beginning of your mandarin study, since it lets
you listen to mandarin spoken at a (fairly) natural speed, but using rather simple vocabulary.
However for advanved listening I think you would be better off getting some movies in mandarin and
converting them to mp3s.










wrbt -

I think it's useful in the elementary to lower intermediate range.

IMO listening comprehension is sorely lacking in many structured study programs, despite being the
most important skill for everyday communication. When audio content is provided it's useful for
familiarizing with vocabulary/grammar/usage but won't train the ear well for natural conversation.

Connections is supposedly unrehearsed and it does sound very informal and of a natural
conversational flow. I've got 'em on mp3 if you want I can try to upload a sample here for you so
you can decide if it's for you or not.










wrbt -

Ok I just attempted to attach a snippet from that series, in WMA format. Whether that worked I
dunno.










wrbt -

and further along this line, the ting li series after this one I've been considering is Across the
Straights

http://www.cheng-tsui.com/product.cf...5261&p=77&c=14

Anyone familiar with this one?










Quest -



Quote:

Ok I just attempted to attach a snippet from that series, in WMA format. Whether that worked I
dunno.

This seems 多此一举。Why not just watch TV?










Neil-san -

I don't know that it is superfluous - there is a real lack of emphasis on listening comprehension
in most high school and university courses.

I'm finishing up the first Integrated Chinese course now. The selling point for me is the
limitation on vocabulary: it forces better understanding of the words I already know in proper
grammer structures. TV and radio will come in handy at higher levels, when I know a larger % of
the vocabulary being used. Since my classes move to higher level texts this will grow, hopefully
to the point that TV and radio can assist.

That's a bottom-up view.

Regards,
Neil










wrbt -

Someone at an elementary level just turning on a TV won't get nearly as much bang for the buck
because so much time will be spent with what amounts to white noise. Yeah it'll help them catch
nuances/pace of the language but a good listening course targeted for a certain level will have
enough vocabulary they are familiar with yet some that forces them to stretch a little.

Plus carrying a TV with me when walking or driving is somewhat inconvenient.










Altair -



Quote:

and further along this line, the ting li series after this one I've been considering is Across the
Straights

http://www.cheng-tsui.com/product.cf...5261&p=77&c=14

Anyone familiar with this one?

I have used both Making Connections and Across the Straits and prefer the latter.

My Chinese is all self taught, and I have no convenient Chinese language exposure within my social
and work sphere, other than the Internet. I like Across the Straits, because it gives an
untranslated transcript of the dialog. This is crucial for me to make much progress in an
efficient amount of time.

I do not recall the features of Making Connections as well as those of Across the Straits, but I
do not recall it having a transcript of the speech. I think it had more varied speakers and
situations, but had slightly worse audio quality.

Across the Straits is a series of dialogs between two people: a man from Beijing and a woman from
Taipei. Both speak in fairly standard accents, although there is a distinct difference in the
amount of erhua used. The Taiwanese speaker does use a few different tones and slightly different
vocabulary, but does not have speech that is regionally marked in any other way I can tell. She
uses the standard sh's, ch's, and zh's where you would expect.

The dialogs in Across the Straits are conducted at normal-to-fast conversational speed and cover a
variety of social topics, such as childhood, aging, divorce, marriage and contrast and compare the
experiences of the speakers and their different societies without overt polemics. The style of the
speech sounds mostly unrehearsed and unscripted, but the two speakers do follow a clear interview
format and probably shared some questions and topics with each other beforehand.

The only people I would not recommend Across the Straits to would be people whose grammatical
knowledge of Chinese is still quite limited. The series provides a decent amount of vocabulary,
but no general translation. If you have an intermediate learner's knowledge of Chinese grammar,
you should be fine. The style and vocabulary is simpler than standard newspaper Chinese, but it is
still ordinary speech and not simplified in any obvious way.










wrbt -

Nice review, much appreciated.












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Chinese Tutor - can anyone transelate this please -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
can anyone transelate this please
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alanjohn34 -

Hi all. Got this tattoo but it dosnt say good and evil like it is supposed to. what does it mean?
thanks in advance



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roddy -

莲呢 - lian ne. Which I guess translates as "What about the lotus?" or something. Perhaps an
attempt to translate a name (Leanne?) into Chinese.










self-taught-mba -

I read this and I just can't stop laughing. "What about the Lotus?" That is too much.

Poor guy: "good and evil"

To the victim:

Sorry to laugh. Don't worry most people will never know. You can tell the average American
whatever you want.

Please tell your tattoo buddies to go here first:

http://www.mandarintools.com/tattoo.html

Or if you are considering getting a Chinese tattoo see this site also.

It may be too late for you but you can save your buddies. Or you can not say anything and you
recommend them to get one also. Then misery will have company and you can get a laugh too










Luciano -

the 尼 is not the particle 呢 , I checked wenlin and 尼 means Buddhist nun, but it says that
it's used a lot for loan words now.
hope it helps










sjcma -

Maybe it's supposed to be "Lenny".










Paolo -

You could check out this site as well http://www.hanzismatter.com/

... and anyway, after witnessing so many foul deeds by ignorant/superficial tattooers, I think we
should found an association to be named ACCLAMAT (Angry Chinese Character Lovers Against MAd
Tattooers)! Join us!










imron -

I agree with roddy. It looks to me like there is a small, badly drawn 口 radical at the top left
of the character, which would make it 呢 instead of 尼.

Either way though, it still doesn't mean good and evil.












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Learning Mandarin - what TV programs do you watch? - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
what TV programs do you watch?
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wushijiao -

I watched a show on 东方卫视 today called 创智赢家. The show is a reality show, roughly
following the Aprentice.

The show has two teams that are required to do some business-related project each week, and then
one team wins, people PK, people get voted off...etc.

The show is pretty good- not cheesy, but not boring. There's also an American on the show named
石磊 who has really good Chinese. Due to the fact that the show is a long series, I think he's
helping to brake the model of Chinese-speaking foreigners on TV that basically are assigned the
role of "look at me, I'm dressed in Tangzhuang and know a lot of idioms" (although I think that
this was a historical stage that couldn't have been avoided, so I wouldn't want to bash some of
the first foreigners to go on TV after "Reform and Opening", in which that type of interaction was
allowed for the first time in 30 years).



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cookie_monster -

Haven't watch tv in awhile but I usually check out the movie channel when I did. They don't always
play good movies, but then sometimes u do get lucky Also, the "travel channel" forgot what it's
called, but they used to have it in English (not anymore though).










Yang Rui -

I divide my time between Shenzhen and Beijing. In Shenzhen I have digital cable and enjoy the
Taiwanese shows 康熙来了 and 超级星期舞. They're both chat shows. The first is a bit
risque at times and the celebrity guests are often embarrassed by the show's presenters 徐熙娣
(Xu Xidi, otherwise known as 小S) and 蔡康永 （Cai Kangyong) who is camper than a row of
tents. Conversation is gossipy and involves such subjects as how much phlegm they cough up in the
morning (yes really) and whether they fancy other celebrities. The second show is presented by a a
singer and a dancer. Every week a celebrity joins them for a mixture of lighthearted chat and
bursts of song and dancing. There are also "hilarious" little sketches involving the two
presenters. These programmes are on Star Chinese (星空卫视）i think. Sometimes there are also
entertaining shows on 华娱卫视（Huayu Weishi）. I also like the show 食字路口，where
Taiwanese uber-presenter Wu Zongxian and his disciples Kangkang and Nono pair up with celebrities
and divide into teams and go around Taiwan tasting different kinds of food and generally having a
laugh. I have to admit it's all pretty mindless stuff, but it's entertaining.

In Bejing i don't have cable and have never found anything worth watching.










venture160 -

I'll have to put another vote in for 康熙来了， really really funny. The HUGE DVD store near
HIT in Harbin had every episode on disc. Although there are some other good Taiwanese shows such
as 大哥大， and 我猜我猜我猜猜猜！They are all chat style shows with goofy
entertaining hosts and movie stars as guests. The last one is interesting in that for the last
half of every show there are guests and you have to guess if they are fake or real. Funny stuff.










babygodzilla -

LOL Yang Rui... nothing worth watching in Beijing... I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that
way!










koreth -

How about TV that's broadcast overseas? My satellite system (DirecTV) gets CCTV-4, TVBS, a channel
called "The China Movie Channel," and Phoenix Television.

CCTV-4 seems to be devoted mostly to news and human interest shows about Taiwan (my Taiwanese
girlfriend likes to watch the news on CCTV-4 when we happen to catch it, odd since she's usually
pretty anti-大陆) and so far I haven't quite figured out the relation, if any, between its
actual schedule and what's listed in the DirecTV program guide.

I live in the San Francisco area so I can also get our local pan-Asian station, KTSF. The
Taiwanese kids' show 水果冰淇淋 on that channel has been pretty useful for practicing my
listening skills, but I think I'm ready for something a tad more challenging.

Given that limited selection of channels, any recommendations of shows a low-intermediate learner
would have some hope of understanding?










kudra -

I'm interested in finding a series like 中国式离婚, in terms of listening practice,
vocabulary (not necessarily a trashy soap opera) that I can watch on my Palm TX during my (train)
commute. I haven't figured out how to play rmvb format on a palm. My viewer is TCPMP. Any
suggestions?

Thanks.










geraldc -

Try using a conversion program like eright super http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

It can convert from practically any format to any format, and can resize and resample.

I use it to convert divx programs to watch on my phone to keep me amused on train journeys...










kudra -

thanks, nice.










geraldc -

Over Xmas, we installed a Slingbox at my Grandma's flat in HK so we now stream HK and Mainland TV
back to the UK.
Can't say I use it much ( dad does most of the watching via the Slingbox) as I'm part of the
bittorrent DL generation...
However I have noticed that early sunday mornings around 8.50am Beijing Time or 12.50am UK time,
there's a magazine program for pensioners called 夕阳红

http://www.cctv.com.cn/program/xyh/2...9/101781.shtml

At the moment it's an old persons cooking competition, and it's great I've actually learnt a lot.
It's a nice change from the slick professionalism of the TV chefs you get in the UK, and l'm
learning about other types of Chinese cooking.












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Chinese Speaking - "Helloooooo....." - Page 6 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
"Helloooooo....."
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aimei -

Mandarinstudent, I know that I have it great living here in China. My boyfriend and I have a great
place with an even greater private bathroom (probably even better than a nice living quarters if
you ask me!) Not even a block from our place, there are literally mini shanty towns that the
migrant workers who are currently tearing up the streets around our place day and night live....I
see tons of ppl digging through trash and begging here, and pretty much everybody lives FAR worse
than we do. So yes, I know I'm VERY lucky. When I first came to China three months ago I was
shocked by the way the Chinese lived....I was raised in a very comfortable middle class household
(translation, I was pretty damn spoiled!) and I was totally unprepared to see this kind of
poverty. I hated China at first but I got used to it, and even grew to like it a lot, and even
better I gained an invaluable understanding of just how lucky we really are in the Western world.
That being said, I still feel quite saddened when I am singled out because I am white. Knowing how
lucky I am doesn't help when I can't walk down the street without being greated with a chorus of
"Helloooos！”while a crowd laughs in my face and points. I STILL feel humilated, even though I
know how great I have it in compared to these people, in terms of both standard of living, and in
comparision to the people who engage in this kind of behavior, education. But even this doesn't
change the fact that it hurts, and that they are doing this because I a laowai, and outsider,
different....I want to participate in this culture, and to be sure 95% of the people here are
wonderful. It's just those few that make me feel horrible about myself from time to time....and
yes, I do like my forty kuai Starbucks fraps.....helps little rich spoiled me get through the "bad
China days."

Oh an Imron, thanks for the wayback machine! Forgot how much I LOVE talktalkChina! Btw can anyone
tell me how to quote? I must be retarded because I can't figure it out!



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imron -



Quote:

Btw can anyone tell me how to quote? I must be retarded because I can't figure it out!

When replying to a message, the 7th icon from the right (in between the picture and the # sign)
there's a button that looks like a talk bubble. Click that and two big quote tags will appear
[QUOTE ] [ /QUOTE] Anything you put between these tags will be quoted.










md1101 -

i've been ignoring this thread a bit because there's always a little too much generalising during
china bitching sessions (though not intentionally im sure).

but, aimei, i very much agree with your last comment. i think they sum things up quite nicely
indeed.



Quote:

Personally I'd put the cut-off line at puberty + 2 years. It's a case of being old enough, not
educated enough, to know better. Incidentally, are people below the cut-off line allowed to spit
and litter?

c'mon, roddy, get off your high horse.










Lu -

So, considering wushijiao's comment, would it help if next time a migrant worker shouts HELLOOOO,
the foreigner walks over and has a chat in Mandarin with this worker and his friends? Worker feels
treated like a human being, sees foreigner as less weird, and next time the Hello! might actually
be intended as a greeting.

Aimei, if it's always the same people shouting hellooo at you, maybe you could try this? If not,
there's really not much you can do about it except either ignore it or (shout something back and)
laugh about it, and enjoy yourself the rest of the time.










gougou -



Quote:

would it help if next time a migrant worker shouts HELLOOOO, the foreigner walks over and has a
chat in Mandarin with this worker and his friends?

I've tried that a few times, with little success. Mostly, the helloer was so embarassed by the
helloee's attention that no conversation was possible.

Having said that, I have spoken to many non-helloing members of the scum of society (that is,
everybody who does not drive an Audi) and most people have been delighted to speak to a foreigner,
and sincerely interested. I remember a bus ride of three hours were the young woman next to me
would turn her head every 20 seconds, smile at me and tell me how incredible it was that she was
talking to a foreigner...










imron -



Quote:

the scum of society (that is, everybody who does not drive an Audi)

Haha, are you sure you don't have that round the wrong way?










aimei -

Lu, usually it's just random people doing this to me, at least as far as I can tell. One time this
guy (who I now think was some kind of black cab driver) started literally jumping up and down and
screaming "HELLO!!" at us, trying to get our attention. Well it was just plain rude so I yelled
and waved back "NI HAO!!" which was quite a feet for me since I'm pretty shy.... His friends then
all started laughing hysterically at him and he shut up, go me! And yeah I do ignore it 99.9% if
the time, it's not like I can change 1.3 billion people's behavior anyway. Just sometimes it gets
a little "old", *sigh....*










Lu -



Quote:

I yelled and waved back "NI HAO!!"

This sounds like a very good approach. Go you indeed :-)
Seriously, I understand how you feel, it can get very annoying sometimes, especially if you get it
every day and not just occasionally. But don't let it get to you too much, don't let it spoil your
time in China. Good luck!












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Learn mandarin - 郑州话 - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
郑州话
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libertango -

i know some younger kids in zhengzhou are constantly saying "哦是这" with the feeling that
something they just witnessed is really cool or crazy. i dont know if this is zhengzhou, or just
some young kid slang...

i really miss zhengzhou 烩面. i can't eat noodles in beijing after living in zhengzhou.



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Learning Chinese - Nothing to be eat ?? -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Nothing to be eat ??
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skylee -

As I said on the "What are you reading" thread I am reading (re-reading, actually) Jane Austen's
Persuasion. The book I have is a Penguin Classics. And I have a question. Take a look at this
picture ->



I wrote that question mark the first time I read it. My question is whether "nothing to be eat" is
acceptable (or was acceptable at that time) or it is simply an error. I have read some on-line
version (Gutenberg for example) and it is "nothing to eat". I have no problem with "stopt" or
"teaze" but I find this strange.

One more question. How do you address your father's cousin? Is he your uncle or your cousin? In
this book Charles No. 1 and Charles No. 2 are cousins (their mothers are sisters). Walter is
Charles No.1's son. How should Walter call Charles No. 2?



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wai ming -

I'm no expert on the matter, but if it had read "There being nothing to be eaten", it would be
more acceptable, in my opinion. It certainly sounds strange as "There being nothing to be eat",
even for the style of language used at that time.

Unfortunately I've never read Persuasion, so I can't comment on any other versions










Nibble -

I think it's a typo. It should be either "There being nothing to be eaten" or "There being nothing
to eat," and the latter sounds much more natural to me.












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Chinese Class - Visa questions?????? "L" and "D" -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Visa questions?????? "L" and "D"
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nitropuppy -

I thought I had the chinese visa situation all figured out. Now, I've read some things that negate
my preconceptions. Can anyone answer these few (seemingly) easy questions?
I have heard of the "L" tourist visa. I thought this was good for only thirty days inside China.
Now, I'm reading about multi-entry "L" visa's with extensions on stay in China. Extensions up to
90 days. But, I'm reading vague reasons as to why and where you can get these
Even the chinese consulate web-site is vague on the issue. It mentioned something about requesting
a 60 day extension.I'll be using the New York consulate in the near future.
How difficult is getting a tourist visa which allows a person to stay in China for 90 days?
Does the 90 day "L" visa let you stay in China during those 90 days? Or does a person need to exit
the country every thirty days and come back in on the issued multi-entry visa? (I can see that
getting costly)

Also, what's the deal on the "D" visa? If I'm married to a chinese citizen, do I apply for this
visa so I can live in China for a few years? I'm just trying to figure out a way to spend two
years in China with my wife. I want to live there with her while we work on her U.S. visa. Which
will most likely will take two years to get. How do I accomplish this without racking up huge
bills and frequent flier miles by going in and out of Hong Kong every thirty days?



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liuzhou -

You have to have been married for five years before you are entitled to a D visa. Also, they
remain scarce and few cities can issue them.

You can renew an L in China without leaving. If you are just a tourist they let you renew once
only (usually for another 30 days), but if you are visiting a relative (including wife!) you can
renew twice, giving you 90 days. I have done this in the past.










lucha -

I came in China with a multi entry 6 months tourist visa， but each stay cannot exceed 3 months.
I have to exit the country after 3 months. When I applied for the visa，I saw they also have
1-year tourist visa.
Also，I have a friend who is married to a Chinese guy and she is on a 1-year tourist visa
too，the reason she gave is “staying with her Chinese husband“.










nitropuppy -

So, can I assume that I can get a new "L" visa in Hong Kong, after my first "L" visa 90 days is
expired? Is there a limit to how many "L" visa's a person can do in a year? It looks like I will
need to fly from Chengdu to Hong Kong four times a year? This is going to get costly. Is there no
other way other than using my TESL certificate to teach english, to stay in China???










smalldog -

If your wife is Chinese you can apply for a 1 year L visa. You can apply for this at a Chinese
embassy/consulate or you can arrive on a normal L visa and get a 1 year extension in your wife's
place of residence. Normal L visas can usually only be extended a couple of times, but there is no
limit for the spouse of a Chinese.

Note that you are technically not allowed to work on an L visa -- to be legal you need to get a Z
visa through your employer.










quanxie -

Visa ofr US cititzens jave been a BIG hassle since the forming of the Homeland security gustopho...

In the US you can easily het a 60 day L tourist visa, then one extension in China for 30 days..
Also last time I checked, any visa issued in the US, no matter how long the visa is good form you
MUST exit the country and re-enter every 60 days.... I have never heard of the 1 year L visa so
maybe it will work... (make sure the duration of stay is 1 year also...

If that plan fails, then you can fly to HK and then purchase a 6 Month F business visa...Until
last month you could get a 1 year but, I heard that a 6 month F is all any countries citizen can
be issued now...










liuzhou -



Quote:

It looks like I will need to fly from Chengdu to Hong Kong four times a year?

Why?

As I said, you can renew the visa in China.










nitropuppy -

Well, I hope "smalldog" is correct. That sounds like an answer. I just hope the 1year "L" visa is
a valid thing. (not that I doubt you smalldog) It's just that I have not read of that anywhere.
The issue is this. We're not married yet. I plan to marry her in China. Also, I want to learn the
language (so I'll know when she's swearing at me) , and get to understand her culture. Putting all
the documents together and getting through the burearacracy to get officially married, will take
at least 60 days. Then I am assuming I can fly to Hong Kong and get the 1 year "L" visa as a
spouse. Sound about right?.......

And yes, I know I can't work on a "L" visa. I'm qualified to teach english but I need to put time
every week into my business. Which is in the "States". Perhaps, I might teach part time just to
contribute to my host society. But, I'm not ready to commit a large block of my time on a
contract. Not yet anyhow. Thanks for all your help. This forum has been very helpful on many
issues. When I'm a more informed veteran of China, perhaps I can return the favor to others.










liuzhou -



Quote:

so I'll know when she's swearing at me

You have a lot to learn! Chinese wives always have a few back-up dialects which you don't know!
They use these to swear at you and talk about you with their friends in front of you!



Good luck!










Pengyou -

I just called the Forever Bright Travel Agency in Hong Kong. They said that it is not possible to
issue a visa to a U.S. citizen to allow him/her to stay in China for 6 months at a time. Is this
true? Are there some loopholes? The first visas on my passport were student visas. I now have a
business license in the U.S. I got an invitation letter from a Chinese company to come here in
July - a 2 month F visa. I had it extended for 2 months - another F visa without leaving the
country - via another organization in China. My visa expires on 11/7

Any suggestions? Does anyone know of a reputable person standing on the corner wearing a trench
coat that can take care of this?

It is so frustrating because there is so much conflicting information.












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Chinese Mandarin - Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers
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roddy -



Quote:

How more racist one can get?

Hang people from trees? Force their kids to go to different schools? Not allow them to vote?
There's a few thoughts.



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Quest -

I think it's just so much rarer to see a Cantonese speaking caucasian, and honestly I have never
seen/met/heard a caucasian who speaks Cantonese as well as Sharon Balcombe. I've seen/heard many
non-Chinese but fluent Cantonese speakers, but never one that could speak it flawlessly like Mrs.
Lau. even if they were born in HK. People complain that HK people dont talk to them in Cantonese,
but if they spoke Cantonese like Sharon Balcombe, I think it would be hard not to speak to them in
Cantonese. She sounds culturally, linguistically, totally Cantonese... my mind's still fighting
hard, trying to force an accent on her, but so far failing to find even the slightest hint of
foreigness in her accent.

Sorry, I missed the Indian mother and daughter, they are 100% too, just like Sharon, the daugther
slightly more so. The mother has a bit(0.1%) of country accent.










Ian_Lee -

What is so strange about Caucasian speaking Cantonese?

When I was a kid in 1950s, my neighbor was a family of Britons whose kid spoke perfect Cantonese
(including all the 4-letter words). Their parents could all speak Cantonese, though not as fluent
as their son. But in average, their Cantonese were all much better than my other two neighbors --
Shandongese and Shanghaiese.

Nowadays if you go to the market in Hong Kong, most Filipino/Indonesian maids bargain in Cantonese
with those vendors.










Quest -

Ian_Lee, does your Cantonese have accent? I vaguely remember you said it does? Bauer, who you said
had very good Cantonese, does not really... not orally at least. He's okay, but easily detectable
as foreign.










Ian_Lee -

Quest:

Without comparison, Robert Bauer speaks quite good Cantonese. But of course, he is below average
after you compare all the videos.

Actually I prefer the Harilela most. They spoke unambigously, precisely and clearly. Of course,
they spoke with an accent. But accent is not the point since we (you and I) also speak English
with an accent. The most important point is that you can convey your idea accurately. Just like
Kissinger speaks English, everybody can tell that is not his native tongue but he can convey his
idea to us.

For Balcombe, I am not curious on her accentless since she is just like my neighbor kid -- 100%
native.

In terms of fluency, of course it is the Aussie/New Zealand girl who excels.

Though my father is a Chaozhouese, I speak Cantonese with HK accent -- a lot of "lazy sound".
However, I tell my kid not to learn the horrible Zhongshan-accented Cantonese that her classmate
speaks.










Quest -

I think the Australian girl also was born and raised in HK, but her parents kept her home, she was
a homeschooler, that's why she doesn't really know how to read chinese, and she still has a tiny
bit of an accent.










wannabeafreak -

Quest, how do you rate 河國榮 compared to the above people?


Thanks.










Quest -



Quote:

Quest, how do you rate 河國榮 compared to the above people?

I'd like to change my rating for the Indians (the men), they are actually more fluent than Cecilie
and Bauer. So maybe 75 for the Indian men. I think 河國榮's fluency is like theirs but with a
different accent, so maybe 75-80. Do you have a video of him speaking for a lengthy period of
time, I've only seen him in tvb drama.

Best first:
Sharon Balcombe (native)
Indian Daughter (native)
Indian Mother (native but with slight Indian/乡下话 characteristics)
Aus Girl (near native, miss a tone or two occasionally, fluency slightly worse than the above 3,
she uses 系呀，系嘞 too much)
(some distance)
河國榮 (fluent, but accent is foreign)
Indian Richmen (fluent, accent has heavy 乡下话 characteristics)
(some small distance)
Bauer (relatively fluent, accent foreign)
Cecilie (relatively fluent, accent foreign)










wannabeafreak -

Here is 河國榮 Ho Kwok Wing.

I have cut out all the advertisements and music.

Here is the entire interview:

PART 1: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-01.mp3 (1.97mb)
PART 2: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-02.mp3 (648kb)
PART 3: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-03.mp3 (296kb)
PART 4: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-04.mp3 (874kb)
PART 5: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-05.mp3 (992kb)



Please let me know how good you reckon he is compared to the above people. In terms of accent,
fluency etc. He is my idol.

Thanks










carlo -

sorry Quest, I'm curious about the 乡下话 accent. Are you saying that these people sound like
native speakers but with a non-'standard', yet non-'foreign', accent? Is it like, I don't know,
the way Blacks in American movies speak compared to Bostonian WASPs? If so, shouldn't their accent
be considered as native as that of the others, albeit of a non-standard variety? (My Cantonese
wouldn't make it to 5 on that scale, so I have to ask.












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