Chinese Online Class - The worst dining experience in China - Page 2 -

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The worst dining experience in China
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flameproof -



Quote:

In Dengfeng, you can refuse to pay the bill if chopsticks and bowls are dirty.

When you think about it deeply, it doesn't make much sense. If your tableware is dirty you
probably would ask for clean ones first, right? To finish your meal, then complain and not pay
would be a bit strange, and you would certainly not get away with it if I had a restaurant.



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liuzhou -



Quote:

some restaurants are selling "clean" pack of chopsticks and bowls. Every time you use it, you'll
be charged RMB2.

They must have seen you coming! They only cost ¥1 round here!

Anyway, it won't be long till someone gets caught selling non-sterilised "sterilised"
packs.Wrapping bowls in shrinkwrap isn't difficult.










mr.stinky -

wasn't it only recently a man in beijing was arrested for reselling disposable chopsticks
that he had repackaged....without sterilization, or even washing them?










zozzen -



Quote:

Anyway, it won't be long till someone gets caught selling non-sterilised "sterilised"
packs.Wrapping bowls in shrinkwrap isn't difficult.

Even the "sterilized" pack i bought wasn't really clean. There was a small crack in my spoon, and
in many countries that could be illegal because the rift potentially keeps dirt.

Anyone knows why these sterilized packs have been introduced? Any stories behind it?










yonglin -

imagine how much carbon dioxide and other bad things are being let out in the atmosphere when
they're transporting those bowls and chopsticks to and from the sterilization plants....










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

Anyone knows why these sterilized packs have been introduced? Any stories behind it?

The waitress I asked said it was due to new government regulations ahead of the 08 Olympics. If
that is truly the case, then I wonder why I haven't encountered this at any other restaurants here?

I personally think it's just a way for someone/some people to make more money.










flameproof -



Quote:

There was a small crack in my spoon, and in many countries that could be illegal because the rift
potentially keeps dirt.

I had a business dinner with some Koreans a while ago. One bowl had a little porcelain chipped off
from the edge. One of the Koreans noted that this would be unthinkable for a restaurant in Korea
to serve food in a damaged plate or bowl.

We obviously have a looong way to go here in China.










zozzen -



Quote:

The waitress I asked said it was due to new government regulations ahead of the 08 Olympics. If
that is truly the case, then I wonder why I haven't encountered this at any other restaurants here?

I personally think it's just a way for someone/some people to make more money.

The waiter is possibly partly true. In most restaurants in Dengfeng, I've seen a small government
official notice that tell customers not to pay if they found dirty. It's a standard green notice,
issued by government and signed by managers of relevant restaurants.

If that were a rule really enforced and i were a restaurant manager, I would do the same to sell
sterilized pack of bowl and chopsticks to customers. If anyone complained that chopsticks are
dirty and refused to pay, I would know who I can claim loss. From what i saw, an upper market
restaurant tends to do it in my town.












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Study Chinese - Symbol for Happiness... Need Tattoo Help!! - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Symbol for Happiness... Need Tattoo Help!!
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Lu -



Quote:


Originally Posted by greedycat

have no idea why use the Taiwan's dictionary as the standard, i think most of chinese would choice
幸福 or 福 to express happiness.


Taking that dictionary as a (not the) standard because it's big and it's good. In my experience,
if it's not in that dictionary, chances are it's not a word.
But that doesn't mean, of course, that people use all these words on a daily basis, just that they
exist and have a certain meaning. You seem to be Chinese, what would you say that 歡喜 means? Is
the 教育部國語辭典 wrong?



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LilyXu -

Chinese ppl use two "喜" together"喜喜" when ppl get married. cuz it's the thing between the
lovers. that does means happy. but if you wanna get a tattoo like this , it looks a lil bit
strange, maybe i should say strange, just not usual. but it looks cool anyway, if you like , just
go for it. Most foreigners cant get it. And it does look complicated. u'd better find a good
designor. hehe~

If I were you, I probabely will choose " 福". happy +lucky. and better make it upside down. it's
very typical Chinese way. means " the happyness is coming". very interesting!

My bf got a tattoo on his arm, it's Chinese charactor" 勇" means brave! it looks so fine~~~
good luck!










Qcash3 -

You should do like my cousin mate, go to your local Chinese restaurant and ask the staff. Bring
along a couple pictures of characters, and you can also ask them for suggestions. My cousin had
爱 tatooed on her arm and it looks good, but it still remains a mystery to me as to why she would
choose a language she knows nothing about. Personally if I was to get a 汉字 tatoo I would get
牛逼. Coolest looking tatoo by far .










LilyXu -

cool man! ni tai niu bi!heheheh~
well, two of my friends, volunteers of Project Trust, they got something funny on their skin.
“牛肉面”(beef noodle)and“干拌面”( another kinda muslim noodle in China, some ppl
call it cold salad noodles )which crack me out when i saw them. And they think it's the most funny
tattoo they got. Foreigners don't understand, and Chinese will always have the same reflection as
I did.

cheers!












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Chinese Online Class - 坐月子 - Page 3 -

> Chinese Culture > Society
坐月子
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gato -

Ok. Here is a list culled from Baidu. Why don't you try to discuss on the basis of these practices.


Quote:

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/6345217.html?fr=qrl3
- No cutting of nails
- No pulling of eyebrows
- No use of cold water to wash
- No use of bath lotions
- No use of toothpaste
- No eating of fruits or cold food
- No watching of TV
- No use of computers
- Eating only of freshly cooked food

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/34655584.html?si=4
- No combing or washing of hair
- No bathing





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roddy -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lying-in is the direct link, get round the block as you will.










muyongshi -

Side note on the proxified link...if I clicked on the link in my notification email it went
through but if I clicked on the one in the forums I got a 404 url not found message....

Thanks gato for the list...










studentyoung -



Quote:

Never heard of it and in fact one of my best friends just had her second baby (and by the way she
is a foreigner living in China so she has the same conditions as other Chinese people) and her
"recovery period" was about a week long. During that week she still did many routine things just
required more sleep. For the other 3 weeks of the first month she still required more sleep but
was back to her normal life.

How long has she been living in China? I wonder if she grew up here and has similar diet like the
local people. Does she suffer from anemia (贫血) like a lot of Chinese women do, especially
iron-deficiency anemia (缺铁性贫血) during their pregnancy?


Quote:

资料表明我国约1/3的未孕未哺乳妇女贫血,而哺乳及孕妇近一半贫血。我国育
龄妇女的贫血情况是比较突出的,哺乳母亲及孕妇的贫血情况较未孕未哺乳妇
女更为严重。孕妇贫血患病率与孕周关系密切。城市孕妇13周前贫血患病率��
�16.4%,孕28-37周为高峰,贫血患病率41.4%,但孕37周下降为32%。资料提示,孕妇妊娠
13周后,尤28周后要增加铁剂的补充,矫治孕妇贫血。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%CE%D2...idu#baidusnap1



Quote:

That is only one aspect of this entire thing. and 中国有中国的特点 is not a sufficient
answer to justify away all the non-scientific practices.

I feel sorry for you don’t understand what is called 中国有中国的特点.



Quote:

Never heard of it and in fact one of my best friends just had her second baby (and by the way she
is a foreigner living in China so she has the same conditions as other Chinese people) and her
"recovery period" was about a week long. During that week she still did many routine things just
required more sleep. For the other 3 weeks of the first month she still required more sleep but
was back to her normal life.

I also wonder if your example above is a scientific way to prove there is no difference between
western women and Chinese women, so Chinese women don't need to 坐月子.

Thanks!










muyongshi -



Quote:

How long has she been living in China? I wonder if she grew up here and has similar diet like the
local people. Does she suffer from anemia (贫血) like a lot of Chinese women do, especially
iron-deficiency anemia (缺铁性贫血) during their pregnancy?

She did not grow up here but does have a similar diet to the locals not to mention that somewhere
in the range of 60% of women worldwide suffer from iron deficiency when not pregnant. That number
shoots up to I believe around 90% when pregnant. It's hard to be pregnant (not that I can speak
from experience) and it takes it's toll on women not just in China


Quote:

I feel sorry for you don’t understand what is called 中国有中国的特点.

How is it that I am not understanding it? If we were discussing a cultural issue this would be a
relevant answer but as it is being said there is reasons behind these practices, scientific
reasons, it then is not a sufficient answer.

Nobody once again is denying that differences exist, the question is whether or not those
differences are to the degree of 坐月子 and honestly everyone in the list that Gato has posted
for us I do not think have a solid scientific base.

I can understand not using cold water to bathe as that is just uncomfortable and heated water will
have less germs and other stuff in it due to the heating process but the rest do not follow
logical reasoning.










gougou -



Quote:

but the rest do not follow logical reasoning.

Neither does acupuncture, according to Western scientists; still, it works (also according to
Western scientists).










studentyoung -



Quote:

Nobody once again is denying that differences exist, the question is whether or not those
differences are to the degree of 坐月子 and honestly everyone in the list that Gato has posted
for us I do not think have a solid scientific base.



Quote:

- No cutting of nails
- No pulling of eyebrows
- No use of cold water to wash
- No use of bath lotions
- No use of toothpaste
- No eating of fruits or cold food
- No watching of TV
- No use of computers
- Eating only of freshly cooked food

OK, just check them out one by one.
“No cutting of nails” and “No pulling eyebrows” are two things I first heard of. My
friends during 坐月子still cut their nails by themselves, though I don't know whether they
pulled their eyebrows. But I think pulling eyebrows are not so suitable to practice even in normal
days, less say just after having a baby, because the skin around the eyes is very thin and easily
to get infected.

"No use of cold water to wash." Well, isn’t it easy to understand that the immune system of a
woman after having a baby can’t work well as normal days? What’s more, I haven’t hear any
gynecologist advises their patients to use cold water when they are in their period, less say
after having a baby.

"No use of bath lotions". Those common bath lotions are usually alkaline, which is really not
suitable for a woman just having a baby to clean her body, because it might even destroy the
acidic environment in vagina, which can create some natural protection for vagina, and make the
wound in vagina take even longer time to heal.

"No use of toothpaste." I haven’t heard of it before. I just know that “no use of cold water
to brush teeth”.

"No eating of fruits or cold food"


Quote:

忌食

寒凉蔬果，如西瓜、木瓜、葡萄柚、柚子、梨子、杨桃、橘子、蕃茄、香瓜�
��哈密瓜等。

宜食

荔枝、龙眼、苹果、草莓、樱桃、葡萄。

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/6345217.html?fr=qrl3
So it is not “no eating of fruits”, but pick up the right fruits to eat. As for cold food, I
haven’t heard of any gynecologist say a woman after having a baby is suitable to have cold food.
First, cold food is not very easy to digest. Second it might cause a indigestion even in a normal
healthy man, less say a woman after having a baby.

"No watching of TV" and "No use of computers". It is the problem of radiation. The original
description is a bit odd. If I say “no watching of TV and no use of computers as long as
usual”, it might be easier to understand.

"Eating only of freshly cooked food." Why? Isn’t it just the right food (i.e. good for health)
for a woman after having a baby? Can anyone tell me why it is considered as non-scientific?

"No combing or washing of hair." and "No bathing" These are the measure to protect them from
getting a cold. My friend still combed her hair daily and washed her hair with hot water when
air-conditioner worked well and no wind would blow in the bath directly on her body. As for those
who can’t take a bath at that time, they can still use hot towel to clean their body.

OK, what else?

Thanks!










Lu -



Quote:

But I think pulling eyebrows are not so suitable to practice even in normal days, less say just
after having a baby, because the skin around the eyes is very thin and easily to get infected.

I can reassure you on that one. I've been plucking my eyebrows for years and years and never had
an infection there. (Knock on wood.) In fact, I don't recall ever hearing a friend complain about
such a thing, or even ever seeing a women with an infection by her eyebrow caused by plucking it.










shanghaikai -

中国有中国的特点 is the equivalent of saying "I'm special because I'm special." It is not
an answer, it is a way to avoid admitting that you have no answer; it is an excuse.










Lu -



Quote:

"No use of bath lotions". Those common bath lotions are usually alkaline, which is really not
suitable for a woman just having a baby to clean her body, because it might even destroy the
acidic environment in vagina (...).

This explanation doesn't really make sense. Using bath lotions or soap doesn't necessarily mean
that the woman in question is washing her vagina with it, she can wash the rest of her body. As
far as I know, it is never a good idea to wash one's vagina with soap, nevermind if one just had a
baby or not.



Quote:

"No combing or washing of hair." and "No bathing" These are the measure to protect them from
getting a cold.

How does combing one's hair lead to a cold?



Quote:

"No watching of TV" and "No use of computers". It is the problem of radiation.

Non-scientific, afaik all this radiation stuff has never been proven. And if it is a matter of
radiation, is the woman allowed to use a cell phone? Or did they just not update the list that far?












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Chinese Pinyin - Looking for fellow foreigners working as translators - Page 3 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Looking for fellow foreigners working as translators
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yonglin -

Actually, I think it's quite rare that interpreters have formal training. In the west at least,
most just tend to be well assimilated immigrants.

I think what makes a good translator is quite complex. I would say that a very good grasp of your
native language (which you're probably translating into) is extremely important. Then of course,
you need to have fairly good skills in the language you're translating from as well, although this
probably depends on the type of material you're doing. Why I'm saying "fairly" is because
understanding the meaning well enough to translate stuff doesn't necessarily mean that you can
speak it. Of the two people I ever known doing translation, no one could actually speak the
language they were translating from very well. Reading skills and other skills aren't necessarily
well correlated.

In particular, I think interpretation and translation are very different taks. I wouldn't doubt a
second interpreting between Swedish and English, but I could never do translation - my written
Swedish simply isn't up to scratch (anymore).

A degree in translation is probably much like a degree in creative writing : it won't make you a
good translator (writer/poet) if you're not set out to be one in the first place. Some people have
a talent for it, others just don't. If you've got the talent to be a translator (writer/poet),
then maybe such a degree could teach you some tips and tricks, but it's not like you couldn't have
figured them out on your own. Finally, I would think that translators, just like writers or
artists, are probably hired based on some kind of portfolio than the formal qualifications on
their CV - obtaining a degree in fine arts doesn't mean you're an accomplished artist.



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lilongyue -

I'm going in for negotiations with my company on Monday. We'll be talking about what my salary,
hours, etc., will be as a full time employee. I know how much to charge as a part-time translator,
where it's just a matter of how many characters I've translated, but as a full-time translator?
I'm not expecting much, but would like some ideas of what's a reasonable monthly salary to ask
for. My wife isn't too enthused about me doing this kind of work, as the pay will be much less
than teaching, but I honestly can't bear the thought of teaching again. Also, with any luck this
will only be for a year, and then I'll be on to much better things. Suggestions?










Lu -

Don't know what the salary is in China, but if you're looking for a ballpark figure:
[going rate per character] x [number of characters that you can translate per hour] x [hours you
will work in a month] = [reasonable monthly salary].
(Quite a large margin of error here, but at least you get some indication.)










priscilla -

Hi,I have been working as English interpreter,ok,I would like to talk with you about this.
Prisiclla










Lugubert -



Quote:


Originally Posted by tooironic



Quote:

As to getting into it, what heifeng says, just do it. If you can't find paid work, translate for
free for charities, for the experience. Tell everyone you know you are (not 'want to be' but
'are') a translator and are always interested in assignments. Get business cards printed and hand
them out at every occasion, that helps too. Diplomas and special courses and the like are probably
useful if you want high-profile or government work, but most companies couldn't care less. If,
after some time in translating, you want to get higher up, you can always get a diploma later.

This is not a good idea, at all. It is simply unethical to undertake professional translating work
without having some kind of accreditation and/or registration as a professional translator,
regardless of whether it is 'free' or not. The fact that there are companies out there who are
ignorant enough about the profession and 'couldn't care less' about whether a translator is
qualified to be doing such work just adds to the problem. Translating and interpreting is a
profession, just like medicine, law, architecture, accounting, etc, and as such there is a due
process that needs to followed before he/she can enter the profession. Sorry, but being a
Translation Studies student myself (doing my Masters at RMIT, Melbourne), it just really annoys me
when unqualified laypeople take work from qualified professionals who have taken the time to build
up their skills and learn the history, ethics and theoretical bases of the profession.


During my first years in the translation business (in Sweden), I made a point of not having taken
the exam for authorized translators. The reason? That test is on general, legal and financial
texts only. I stress that I'm specialized in other fields, namely medicine, chemistry and other
sciences.

Lazy that I am (aka financially incompetent), I work mainly through major translation agencies. In
that way, they handle most of the red tape and take the financial risk of any customers who don't
pay.

I feel no need for the history of translation, but I get a fair bit of it from Religious studies:
Bible. Business and other ethics thanks to my atheist worldview can't be improved on. They at
least match those of the professional association of which I'm a member. I would be interested in
reliable theories on how translation works in my head, and have looked for and asked for them at
several linguistics departments, but so far, I have found nothing. Maybe I should try neurologists?

My degrees are in engineering chemistry and linguistics, and I have worked for pharma companies in
non-translating capacities. The curricula for Translation Studies I've seen will award a degree
even if you don't have any speciality subject at all. I've been in the business for some time. Now
and then young people who want to work as translators contact me. Some hold a degree in
Translation Studies. My first question to them is invariably something like, "OK, where's your
expertise?" I usually get no reply.

I'm sceptical regarding Translation Studies as job training. It's like taking a course in
sculpture or car mechanics. You can't learn it all; you must have what it takes. The Swedish
prerequisites include an aptitude test. I haven't seen them, so I can't comment on them more than
that they are absolutely necessary to weed out at least the least suitable candidates. To be
qualified for the course for "facköversättare", ususally translated "professional translator",
but rather meaning a translator of non-fiction, several years of university language studies are
required. I find that almost ridiculous. I have not one completed semester in any of the languages
I work from, and use more time declining orders than accepting.










lilongyue -



Quote:

Don't know what the salary is in China, but if you're looking for a ballpark figure:
[going rate per character] x [number of characters that you can translate per hour] x [hours you
will work in a month] = [reasonable monthly salary].
(Quite a large margin of error here, but at least you get some indication.)

Well, come to find out they're going to calculate my pay as a full time employee in the same
manner as when I was a part time employee - on a character by character basis. Am glad because if
I were working on a salary, they could pile the work on me and I wouldn't get any more money.










roddy -

We had a pretty useful discussion on translation rates of pay a couple of years back - see here.
Two years old obviously, but probably still of value.










lilongyue -



Quote:

We had a pretty useful discussion on translation rates of pay a couple of years back - see here.
Two years old obviously, but probably still of value.

Wow, didn't know that the rates could run that high in Mainland China! Now I'm thinking I put
myself in a bad bargaining position by accepting the initial rate while working part-time! At the
time I just wanted to get my foot in the door and get some experience. Maybe now that I have some
experience I can bump up the rate (considerably). Hmm, probably have some hard bargaining ahead of
me . . .










roddy -

Might be worth bumping that one up with any information you are able / willing to provide and see
what's happening now. That was two years ago and I suspect there are now plenty more foreigners
attempting to work as translators.

That said, if you feel that what you are getting is a reasonable reward for the time and effort
you put in, I wouldn't worry about it. Working at an agency is always going to pay less as there's
a middle man to consider.












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Random new word of the day
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roddy -

Here's mine:

黑匣子 hēixiázi, black box (ie in a plane). I heard this in a report on the recent plane
crash in Thailand and knew what it was from context, but don't remember seeing 匣子 before so
looked it up to see what it was.

What's yours? Characters, pinyin, meaning and source. We'll see how many we can get (probably one )



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heifeng -

well last night there was a very interesting program about 韩生元 who must be the most adorable
old man in China on the xinjiang channel . Anyway, he is known as the 花儿歌王....
so the new word is 花儿 which is a type of folk singing, you can learn more here
here and here










Ari 桑 -

洋娃娃 (yángwáwá, a doll) has to be one of the most fun words to say as a foreigner. Its not
that creative but its what came to mind.










rob07 -

This is fun! I pick 羼水 (chan4shui3), which means to water down alcohol (or, apparently, to
adulterate generally). If that is too small to read, the first character is three sheep under a
dead body.

我从十二岁起，便在镇口的咸亨酒店里当伙计，掌柜说，样子太傻，怕侍候�
��了长衫主顾，就在外面做点事罢。外面的短衣主顾，虽然容易说话，但唠��
�叨叨缠夹不清的也很不少。他们往往要亲眼看着黄酒从坛子里舀出，看过壶
子底里有水没有，又亲看将壶子放在热水里，然后放心：在这严重兼督下，�
��水也很为难。










Tommi -

蜃 shèn - originally means a clam, learned it from this word: 海市蜃楼 - meaning a mirage.










roddy -

Oddly enough I've read the story from Rob07 (孔乙己 by 鲁迅) and listened to the song
海市蜃楼 by 与非门 but never bothered looking up 羼 or 蜃. And now I don't need to.

Was going to post another one, but will wait till tomorrow. . .










heifeng -

well i'm going to bump my other threads this and this which operate on the same idea of new,
random words... but i'll actually think of a new one to post manana










Lu -

隆乳 long2 ru (3?) breast enlargement
淋巴結 lin2 ba1 jie2 lymph node
I suspect this article I'm translating will teach me the word for silicone as well, once I've
looked up all the difficult words.

花儿 is really cool, I know one Dutch women who researches it, they would only let her into the
花儿 festivals if she could sing too, so she can sing 花儿 herself as well.










Myriam -

Learnt this word by watching an MV (Music Video) on the web :
客串 = kè chuàn = guest performance, cameo.










heifeng -

Word for yesterday since I actually was able to pry myself away from the computer for over 24
hours....

I think this takes top spot in being random, because I learned the Chinese in my recent class
before even knowing what the English term for this structure is, always fun when that happens...

轭式搭配 e4shi4da1pei4(see point #9, but other vocab is interesting too) =zuegma structure

-----------------

Today's word, which came from a program about breeding camels in dubai (which fyi they are
primarily used for racing there, and the 母 camels are usually the winners hahah)

妊娠期, ren4shen1qi1 or gestation period...which I guess on that note it's also useful to know
分娩( fen1mian3, or birth) also...hmm, can't find that program on the web, but i'm sure these
would easily pop up in other nature programs...oh and stuff on humans of course too..












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Chinese Speaking - Shen Kuo; China's Greatest Pre-modern Scientist -

> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
Shen Kuo; China's Greatest Pre-modern Scientist
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Meiguoren -

I want to start a general discussion on the Song Dynasty statesman, military general, and writer
Shen Kuo (沈括 lived 1031-1095 CE), who I believe is China's greatest pre-modern scientist.

First off, how much do any of you know about Shen Kuo just off the top of your head? How much do
you think average Chinese know about him and his groundbreaking work Dream Pool Essays (Meng Xi Bi
Tan, 梦溪笔谈) published in 1088 CE?

I think he deserves to be a household name, ranked amongst the greatest of genius polymaths such
as al-Biruni, al-Haytham, Leonardo Da Vinci, Gottfried Leibniz, Mikhail Lomonosov, Blaise Pascal,
etc.

Certainly, Shen Kuo is comparable to another rival Chinese intellect of his age, the contemporary
peer Su Song, renowned also for astronomy, mathematics, cartography, pharmacology, foreign
diplomacy, and horology in inventing new clockworks just like Shen Kuo's many achievements. Su
Song's clocktower is impressive for so many reasons (i.e. applying the escapement mechanism at
least two hundred years before European clocks, as well as the first known chain drive of any
sort, to power the rotating armillary sphere of his tower), yet Shen Kuo's written work is even
more valuable, I think. Although impressive, the work of later writers such as Jiao Yu and Li Jie,
Li Shizhen, Xu Xiake, Song Yingxing, etc. somewhat rivals but really does not compare to the
quality and many brilliant aspects of Shen's work and scientific reasoning. I can really think of
only a handful of pre-modern Chinese mathematicians who are more notable in the field of
mathematics than Shen Kuo, such as Yang Hui, Qin Jiushao, Zhu Shijie, etc, and maybe Zhang Heng
and Liu Hui since their work was far more ancient than Shen's (although Chinese mathematics was
much more advanced by Shen's time).

I want to make it known that, without my edits, the wikipedia article on Shen Kuo would be still
shoddy at best (even saying that is generous), and I am responsible for lifting it up to Featured
Article Status, the highest quality rating Wikipedia has. The wikipedia article on the Dream Pool
Essays was also non-existent before I created it, which speaks volumes about how many people are
not concerned about the importance of Shen Kuo, or just don't know anything about him! I've had
people leave messages on my talk page thanking me for putting so much effort into his article,
because they had never even heard of him before. How sad is this? The first man to describe the
magnetic compass, the invention of movable type printing by Bi Sheng, the first use of a drydock
in China, the first to experiment with camera obscura in China (only decades after Ibn al-Haytham
was the first to do so), etc. Plus, his geological theories about land formation (what we consider
the modern study of geomorphology) and gradual climate change (what we consider the modern study
of paleoclimatology) made him a man of intellect hundreds of years before his time.

What does everyone here think of Shen?
Meiguoren



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Meiguoren -



This is sort of sad and pathetic, no replies or responses in 5 days? I see. This forum is pretty
beat. So I guess with no responses, I'm assuming everyone pretty much despises Shen Kuo and wishes
he was never a part of Chinese history.

Meiguoren










Meiguoren -

Three days after the last message (and more than a week since the first post), and still no
comment or any thoughts about Shen Kuo? That goes from sad to outright rediculous, considering the
amount of members on this site and traffic on this forum.

Meiguoren










adrianlondon -

On the basis that most people have never heard of him, a fact you state in your first post, and
that the main source of online information available on him was written by yourself, I'm not sure
what type of comment you're expecting.

No one has anything to say! We can just read your post, shoot off to Wiki, and then think "oooo!".

So .... oooo! ;)










roddy -

You might want to try chinahistoryforum.com, they'll love you over there.










Meiguoren -



Quote:

No one has anything to say! We can just read your post, shoot off to Wiki, and then think "oooo!".

So .... oooo! ;)

I see what you're saying, but I still think China's greatest premodern scientist deserves a little
more than a simple "oooo!" as you so eloquently put it. An "oooo!" is more appropriate for when
someone takes a bite of delicious ice cream, or finds a 100 dollar award in the mail, or when a
kid of someone you know on a little league baseball team hits a fairly decent home run out of the
ball park. Do you say "oooo!" when you read about the achievements of Einstein or Newton? Or do
you give a little more respect to men who braved to shape and improve our world? I guess you don't
care for that sort of thing.

Plus, you don't even have a single question? Not one? That could start something, at least.



Quote:

You might want to try chinahistoryforum.com, they'll love you over there.

Heh, already beat you to it.










studentyoung -



Quote:

What does everyone here think of Shen?



Quote:

This is sort of sad and pathetic, no replies or responses in 5 days? I see. This forum is pretty
beat. So I guess with no responses, I'm assuming everyone pretty much despises Shen Kuo and wishes
he was never a part of Chinese history.



Quote:

Three days after the last message (and more than a week since the first post), and still no
comment or any thoughts about Shen Kuo? That goes from sad to outright rediculous, considering the
amount of members on this site and traffic on this forum.

It seems that you don’t understand that sometimes being a great scientist is very lonely. And it
seems that you complain about others who might not be interested in your topic. Shen was learned
great scientist and studied in mathematics, physics, traditional Chinese medicine and astronomy.
He also made achievements in archaeology, painting, calligraphy, poem, music, history etc. But in
public, he never complained about others who were not interested in his topics. Can you feel the
great difference between you and Shen?



Quote:

Or do you give a little more respect to men who braved to shape and improve our world?

I hope you might understand no one respond to your post doesn't mean they don’t give respect to
men who braved to shape and improve our world.



Quote:

I guess you don't care for that sort of thing.

I guess you don’t know that your tone might hurt others!

Thanks!










adrianlondon -



Quote:

I guess you don't care for that sort of thing.

A patronising, conclusion-jumping academic! Well I never.

As for the actual content of your post, odd analogy to ice-cream aside, what are you actually
after?

A discussion about the guy himself? That's unlikely as you say you're the only person who knows
anything about him. So "oooo" does seem appropriate, in a "wow, really? That's cool to know, I'll
read up about him" kind of way. But, now you've mentioned ice-cream I might just go off and eat
that instead. If only I could work out where the shop is. Someone should invent a compas which
points out the direction one is walking in so I could orientate myself.

A discussion on the scientific principles in his work? I don't think that's what you're after, as
this is done independently of the man himself which does seem to be the focus of your post.

So, what did you actually want to talk about?










Meiguoren -



Quote:

But in public, he never complained about others who were not interested in his topics.

Sure, he didn't go running around the countryside screaming at all the peasant farmers about what
he had done while writing important works or working as an official in various positions at court.
However, his job, especially as head of the Bureau of Astronomy, was to present his work to others
in order to correct significant errors and mistakes in accepted Chinese astronomy at the time. It
was his moral duty as an official to set wrongs right, which entailed making his findings known to
others. There was a huge amount of political opposition mounted against Shen because of his
affiliation with Chancellor Wang Anshi and his court faction. They outright slandered his
brilliant colleague Wei Pu simply because he wasn't born into a prominent family. Shen Kuo had to
stick up for himself and for Wei Pu, knowing full well that their findings in astronomy were
absolutely correct while any accepted model since the time of Yi Xing was unquestioned. Therefore,
Shen had to put on a public display with an astronomical gnomon in front of everyone in order to
prove the doubtful wrong about his teams' plottings for planetary and lunar orbital paths, as well
as their calculation for the accelerated phase of motion and retarted phase of motion for the mean
sun and apparent sun, respectively. Although the lunar and solar errors were fixed, the officials
at court stymied his efforts to correct all of the errors involved with planetary orbit and
motion. So in fact, if it was not for Shen Kuo sticking up for himself and complaining about the
abuse he and Wei Pu were recieving from others for petty political and career reasons, nothing
would have been solved, even though in the end only half his efforts were accepted.



Quote:

Can you feel the great difference between you and Shen?

First off, I never professed to be a splitting image of Shen Kuo, he had an incredibly humble
attitude and he was a better human being than most. I wish I had as much patience as he did with
people that knew less than him; unfortunately I lack this paramount virtue, one that I am only
slowly developing and learning from my own college professors, who are brilliant men that are
light-years ahead of me in knowledge.



Quote:

I hope you might understand no one respond to your post doesn't mean they don’t give respect to
men who braved to shape and improve our world.

I wasn't responding to a comment by adrianlondon about lack of posting a response in the first
place. I was responding to adrianlondon's comment that, upon learning something of Shen Kuo's
life, career, achievements, and contributions to the world, he pretty much summed it all up in the
indifferent and sarcastic phrase "oooo!" and nothing more. Maybe that wasn't the actual tone he
was using or intending, but to me it rubbed off as saying Shen Kuo deserved nothing more than an
"oooo," because that's all adrianlondon had to say!



Quote:

I guess you don’t know that your tone might hurt others!

If his feeling are truly hurt (which I doubt they are), then that's not entirely negative. Putting
the guilt trip on him might make him want to learn more (which in the end will only benefit him).
Anything to pull more attention on here to Shen Kuo (who sorely deserves it), which was my
original intent.



Quote:

A patronising, conclusion-jumping academic! Well I never.

See? His feelings aren't hurt, like any normal person he's cracking jokes in self defense.



Quote:

A discussion about the guy himself? That's unlikely as you say you're the only person who knows
anything about him. So "oooo" does seem appropriate, in a "wow, really? That's cool to know, I'll
read up about him" kind of way.

When did I ever say I was the only person who knew about him? If I was the only person who knew
about him, that would be much more incredibly sad than things already are in regards to Shen. And
no, I wasn't seeking a conversation or discussion about his personal life, I was looking more
along the lines of what people knew about his various achievements, which are more relevant in any
case.



Quote:

But, now you've mentioned ice-cream I might just go off and eat that instead.

Um, ok.



Quote:

If only I could work out where the shop is. Someone should invent a compas which points out the
direction one is walking in so I could orientate myself.

Now you're getting the picture.



Quote:

A discussion on the scientific principles in his work?

Bingo. That and why they are significant and relevant today.



Quote:

I don't think that's what you're after,

And then you had to go and say that, which ruined your previous assumption, which was correct.



Quote:

So, what did you actually want to talk about?

Well, if you noticed the very last question in the post, "what does everyone here think of Shen,"
I was expecting an answer that was a little more intelligent and thoughtful to the topic than
"oooo!" Pretty much a caveman response on the intelligence meter (no offense).

Plus, you've completely ignored the second and third sentences in the original posts, the only
other questions posed. Those being:



Quote:

First off, how much do any of you know about Shen Kuo just off the top of your head? How much do
you think average Chinese know about him and his groundbreaking work Dream Pool Essays (Meng Xi Bi
Tan, 梦溪笔谈) published in 1088 CE?

Now, you're answer to the first question should have followed the lines of something like: "I
don't know anything about Shen Kuo at all, or at least did not know about him until I read this,"
if that is truly the case. That's what I was looking for! How much people actually knew about him
without resorting to peeking at wikipedia, which people often do not have to do when well-known
scientists like Tycho Brahe are being discussed, yet Shen is arguably as important.

As to the second question, I was aiming that more at actual Chinese people, who on average are
educated pretty well in their own history. I asked this question out of pure curiosity of how well
known he is in mainland China, or Taiwan, or Singapore, or Malaysia, or San Francisco for all I'm
concerned (basically any place you will find Chinese people). I figured, since this is a Chinese
language site teeming with Chinese people, that one out of at least 100 would give a crap. I was
sorely mistaken, until I started putting the guilt trip on everybody. Unfortunately, that didn't
work either, since no one has so far bothered to give a thoughtful response to those two
questions. Studentyoung certainly could, since he actually lives or is at least from China, hence
by default knows Chinese people and what his Chinese peers might know about historical subjects. I
have never been to China, hence my curiosity in finding out (since Shen is apparently largely
ignored in the West, despite fairly widespread acknowledgement of him in the circle of Western
sinologist historians). Unfortunately, StudentYoung found it more worth his time to respond to my
rebuttal to you than to actually answer any of the initial questions.

Therefore, my curiosity continues, and I'm curious in the first place because Shen is so damn
important that I look at people outright ignoring him and wonder what is the root cause of this
bizarre behavior and treatment of Shen. In fact, I look at such behavior (i.e. Western historians
ignoring or downplaying the achievements of non-Western achievers) as intellectually dishonest in
seeking any and all objective truth about a full and encompassing history. When the 14th century
Italian Francesco Petrarca (Petrarch) discovered the much-ignored but incredibly important letters
of the ancient Roman statesman Cicero, he didn't just go "oooo!" and then went out for ice cream
while not thinking much about what he had just discovered. He was absolutely appalled at the level
of ignorance of his medieval peers and what they chose to ignore, and especially their
indifference to the pagan authors of the past, simply because they were not Christian writers. And
do you know what Francesco is responsible for? Nothing much. He only laid the foundations for
European Humanism, the social spark that ignited the Renaissance Age, the revival of Republicanism
and its civic virtues of which the scholastic, Aristotelian Western world had largely forgotten,
and upon which our modern democracies should be forever grateful for. You know, nothing big. Or as
you might put it, "oooo!"

Meiguoren










adrianlondon -



Quote:

When the 14th century Italian Francesco Petrarca (Petrarch) discovered the much-ignored but
incredibly important letters of the ancient Roman statesman Cicero, he didn't just go "oooo!" and
then went out for ice cream

He probably had a cassata.












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Speak Chinese - unicode / chinese fonts -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
unicode / chinese fonts
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ioaz10 -

Hi,
I am on irc and it seems the most convenient font to use is Arial Unicode MS.

This is a big font 22mb.

Name other standard package fonts with support.



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Chinese Tutor - 悲欢负月 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
悲欢负月
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shanli -

Dear all,
I try to read and translate this sentence to English, but got stuck on 悲欢负月
悲欢负月唯有爱是永远的神话

Can anyone help me translate this sentence to English?
thanks



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skylee -

Looks like it is from the lyrics of the song 美麗的神話. If it is, then you are stuck because
there is a typo. It is not 悲歡負月, it is 悲歡歲月.










shanli -

Thanks Skylee, you're right, I got it now.










flora -

悲欢岁月










danshall -

悲bei:miserable, unhappy
欢huan:well-being, happy,
负月(岁月)may be you have made wrong). means seasons, days have passed.
lofty and steep seasons.












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Free Chinese Lesson - japanese-chinese dictionary -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
japanese-chinese dictionary
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ZhuGeLiang70 -

I'm looking for Chi-JP and JP-Chi dictionaries.
I'm especially interested in software for Pocket PC, but also windows is also interesting.

Any suggestions?



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Oceanfield -

i speak chinese mandarin and live in beijing, i also learn japanese, however i think translate on
line is more helpful than dictionary for my japanese study, the babelfish.com provides very
excellent interpreter.












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Learning Chinese - Inappropriate Google Ads -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
Inappropriate Google Ads
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roddy -

For those of you who haven't opted to hide adverts:

The Google Adsense ads are automatically placed on the site by Google and I don't have a great
deal of control over what appears. Normally that's not a problem but on occasion something
inappropriate turns up. If you notice that happening and you want to be helpful, pm me or email
details of the ad - the exact page you saw it and the url it points to, and if possible a screen
shot. You can also use the 'Ads by Google' link to report it to Google (this has no impact on me,
feel free to use it).

I should then be able to stop it turning up again.

Very rare that there's any kind of problem, but I did get one report this morning, so thought I'd
post this in case anyone else is noticing anything.



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Chinese Class - CSC Scholarship Support Group - Page 12 -

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extrapages -

jawshoowa,

thanks for the post. im going to update the first post with some of your information.
i didnt know that you could apply to separate smaller embassies - it seems like only SOME of them
know whats going on with the csc scholarship and others still dont know it exists.

so to answer your questions:
1. the guarantor is anyone you know in china that can vouch for you or act as someone who will be
responsible for you in case of an.. emergency? i guess? its not really that important because they
never check and your application information will probably be long gone by the time you settle
yourself in china. there are people who have just made the information up and still got the
scholarship. however, ive been offering my personal information for those who would prefer to have
a real person listed in that section - that offer now definitely stands for you (if you are
willing to be a guarantor for someone in the future.)

2. a notarized copy is basically one where there's proof of a witness (with a seal/stamp) who can
prove that it is, in fact, a copy of the original that hasnt been tampered with. i was in korea
when i applied, and i had to go to a lawyer's office (or something similar - i forget) and it
wasnt cheap. in the states, you can go to a notary public, UPS/FEDEX/KINKO'S store (or any
copy/delivery type store), or bank - although not all banks offer that service. and also i heard
that you can get stuff notarized at walmart even - but you definitely want to check that. not sure
how much it costs in the states either.

---

how did other people notarize copies of your application documents?
please share with us. it would be great to get as much information on this from as many different
countries/regions as possible!



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amphivera -

Hi everyone,

First of all, thanks for everyone who's contributed to this extremely helpful thread. I still
haven't handed in my application (I'm a U.S. citizen so I'm going by the 4/30 deadline). I'm
feeling pretty downbeat about the chances of being accepted since I'm currently living in working
in China as an English teacher. However, I'd really like to study Chinese formally at a Beijing
University next year and I thought it wouldn't hurt to give the thing a shot anyway.

I'm having the same problems others are having regarding finding the appropriate address for the
Chinese Embassy in D.C. I first checked with American Citizen Services at the U.S. Embassy in
Beijing and they responded that, "our Embassy does not get involved with the Chinese Government
Scholarship Program." I'm now trying to get in touch with the Chinese Embassy in D.C. but it's
been a nightmare since I'm using Skype and calling from China.

Anyway, I'll keep on trying but my point is, do not send your materials to the U.S. Embassy in
Beijing. It'll just get tossed in the trash.










extrapages -

amphivera,

yes. as stated in the intro post - us embassies will know nothing about the csc scholarship as it
is a chinese program. you should try to contact the chinese embassy in your home state first. or
pm me if you need the contact info for the guy in d.c.

also, pleasepleasepleaseplease keep us up to date and tell us how it goes. i dont know anyone
who's received the scholarship when they're already in china... and i was sure that people already
in china are not eligible for the longest time but never found it written anywhere so it might
have been just me thinking nonsense.

also, are you in beijing? if so - maybe we can meet and try to work this out together.










floatingcomma -

Dear extrapages and friends,

Thank you very much for this thread, it's really a great help as I feel like I'm swimming in
disconnected information on the web regarding the CSC scholarship. I'm going to attend the IUP
program in the fall for a year because I desperately need to get my Chinese language up to par for
my career.

Do any of you know if I would be eligible for this scholarship as an IUP student? IUP is separate
from Tsinghua, but I still have to fill out foreigners forms for Tsinghua for my visa. The
relationship between Tsignhua and IUP is vague and even when I asked the IUP coordinator here, she
didn't know how to answer, and then the emails I've send to CSC regarding this has of course gone
unanswered. I really need money (I work in the arts, enough said ) so any help is greatly
appreciated!










extrapages -

floatingcomma,

IUP is separate from Tsinghua but is based in Tsinghua and is a Berkeley program - which means you
won't be able to take the IUP course at any other school and it's not a Chinese university
program. Also, tuition for Chinese classes as just a language student (not an IUP student) is a
FRACTION of IUP's fees. The scholarship only covers the tuition for normal Chinese classes - which
usually is around $2,500 USD a year (as opposed to the $14,000). The CSC has partnerships with the
colleges themselves, not programs that may be based out of them.

Are you already at Tsinghua? Are the IUP classes and normal Chinese classes really that different?
If not, I think you should apply for the scholarship and list Tsinghua was your top choice, get
out of the IUP program, and see if you can continue with the classes (if they are the same classes
available to normal language students). But then, I don't know if you'll be able to get credits
for Berkeley. But if you're already in China, as posted in many other places in this thread, you
might have problems - as everyone who's applied while already in China never got approved.

The same goes for EAP people who are coming to China through the University of California schools
- as they need to pay fees and tuition of a UC semester... which is a total rip-off, even with all
the trips they may take you on.










jawshoowa -

floatingcomma,

The only scholarship I know of that would alleviate IUP sticker shock is the Blakemore. It is an
extremely generous scholarship and the only two mandarin programs they feel are worthy of their
funding are IUP and ICLP in Taipei. If you need to attain high-level Chinese for your career, then
you are the right sort of candidate for the Blakemore. Unfortunately the deadline has already
passed for this year. I know 'cause I was rejected. They do require that you already have fairly
high level of skill. The scholarship is meant to bump you up from "good" to "professional", and
IUP and ICLP are just the sorts of programs to do that.

I would suggest doing a year in a regular university program to save money, then applying for the
Blakemore the following year.

Another good language scholarship is run by the Rotary club. I have also been rejected by them in
the past. They seem to like people with a strong public service orientation, and who have a
commitment to cooperating with Rotary in the future. The problem: they do not give scholarships to
China. The Solution: they do give scholarships to go to Taiwan. I believe the deadline has not yet
passed. I am not reapplying since my last attempt was squarely rebuffed and I don't have much more
to spice up my application this year.

OK, this is getting off CSC topic. But certainly many CSC hopefuls are contemplating other sources
of funding.










jawshoowa -

Everyone concerned about US deadlines:

I went down to LA today to hand off my application. They said they are packing up the apps and
sending them off this Friday, April 18th (to DC? to Beijing?) Anyone else in Southern California
planning to apply through the LA embassy should get their stuff in pronto.

Again, I think applicants to the embassy in DC still have time as their end of April deadline
seems to have been verified here multiple times.

BTW, the people at the embassy were super friendly! What a contrast to my experiences trying to
call the embassy on the phone, or waiting in lines last year to get my visa. And what a relief to
have it all done! It's out of my hands now.










extrapages -

jawshoowa,
hahaha! why does it seem like you've been declined from every scholarship out there?! haha! im
sorry...! hopefully, you'll get the CSC one and make your way over to china soon.
and thanks for the info on the local embassy. ill update the intro page to show that they
definitely have earlier deadlines.










zmblum -

Great idea to condense this topic Extrapages... but I digress.

I just applied for a full CSC Scholarship for this Fall '08 and wanted to share my experience. I'm
in Northern California, so I figured the San Francisco consulate would be the best place to turn
my app in.

I overnighted my app last Tuesday so it got there Wednesday. When I called to confirm they
received it and that it was complete, the very nice woman in charge of the consulate's education
section looked through my packet and told me I forgot to attach a picture to the medical paper,
and that I did not include my notarized diploma.

I thanked her for catching the photo omission and told her that I did not have my diploma yet
since I just graduated in December '07 and hadn't picked it up yet. She said I needed to somehow
get it to her. So I did, I had it notarized, and sent it (along with another small picture) to the
consulate via USPS overnight this past Friday. It arrived yesterday.

I finally got through to the her on the phone today (after being told that she was very busy -- I
got the idea they were not thrilled with me calling merely to confirm receipt) and she told me
that my app was now complete. I asked her how they dealt with the app; specifically if she would
now be sending it to China. She told me that they won't send it to China until the deadline, the
30th of this month. I take it from this that they collect all apps turned in until the 30th and
then send them direct to China. After the 30th I guess they don't accept any more but it seems
they would accept on on the 29th. Normally, I would be worried given what I just ready about the
deadline of the 18th in Los Angeles but my friend successfully applied for and got the CSC
scholarship last year through the San Fran consulate. So, I'm not too worried.

Hope that helps any applicants and specifically Bay Area ones... you still have some time
apparently!










extrapages -

zmblum,
awesome. thanks for the post! i know that your PMs havent been turned on by the admins yet
(hopefully, theyll turn it on soon as ive sent them a message), but could you send me the contact
info at the embassy at the bay? i would love to add it to my "ultra top secret, absolutely
brilliant, effing kick-ass CSC contact list."
keep us posted with what happens! did you apply to any schools beforehand? how did you complete
the physical exam - just at your family doctor's? also, WHERE did you get your papers notarized
and how much did they cost? are you trying to come to beijing? =]

sorry for all the questions... just trying to see how you completed your application (because you
definitely did it right for the woman at the embassy to be satisfied that it's complete.) I'm
surprised that they even review each application before they're sent out... and that she caught
that some stuff was missing...! i think you should consider yourself extremely lucky that there's
such a competent person taking care of your application. =]












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Learn Chinese online - ZDT: Most annoying things about the ZDT - Page 5 -

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ZDT: Most annoying things about the ZDT
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jbradfor -

simon_w, are you using the latest version? [0.7.0] Chris worked very hard to improve the import
feature (at my nagging....) and addresses most of your concerns.

(一) This is not quite correct. There does seem to be some words that it won't import (all of
which are not in the dictionary), but I've gotten it to import words that aren't in the
dictionary. If you can, find some words it won't import and send to Chris -- I'm hoping the more
people nag him about this the sooner he'll fix it for me :-)

(二) It will import tab-delimited files -- I know because I do it all the time. You need to, when
importing files, ensure that "Import Format" is "custom', then click on 'next" from the first
screen, and set the values accordingly.



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simon_w -

Hi jbradfor,

Thanks for your advice/clarifications.

(一) Fair enough - I made an inappropriate inductive step! I have a list of half-a-dozen or more
already, and I not an advanced student of Chinese by any stretch...!

(二) Again, maybe it's just me then. I fiddled for a while using Excel and OOo Calc to reformat
my files to see what I could get to work, and I couldn't get anything to work except for
semi-colon delimiting. I actually had exactly the same experience using Ubuntu as on Windows, so I
had to port my vbs to python...!

I'll see if I can see what's causing my problem, and I'll post some info if I can. I have no
experience with eclipse, except for a brief spell using it as a php IDE, but I didn't like it for
that purpose! However, maybe it's time I gave it another spin...

Thanks!

Simon











bogleg -

Hi Simon,

Send me the lists you're having a problem with and I'll take a look at what's going on. (fongcn at
gmail dot com). One of the things ZDT tries to do is look up the traditional characters (if you're
importing simplified only), and if it can't find it in the dictionary, it will complain. Should it
be so strict? Or should ZDT be more flexible and allow "incomplete" entries? I'm curious to know.

Chris










jbradfor -

Simon, if you like post a small example of a tab-delimited file and I'll check if I can see if
anything is wrong.

For what it's worth (very little....), the files I import are created as follows. I created them
the MS Word, with format
character pinyin def
and save them in Unicode format. When I go to import them I set Input Format to "custom" and file
encoding to "UTF-16". Then I click on next, set input format to "T P D", element delimiter to
"tab", and def delimiter to "nothing". You should see things showup correctly in the preview
section.










Luobot -



Quote:

should ZDT be more flexible and allow "incomplete" entries? I'm curious to know.

Yes.

Why not allow it if the user elects it as an optional (global) override?

It might be good to see a little symbol on that row indicating that the questionable entry was
entered via the override. That might inspire the user to do further research to determine if the
entry is invalid (in which case, he can delete it) or valid, but just not yet in the dictionary.

The default could still be the current behavior.










maku777 -

I'm a new user and found ZDT at this webpage: http://www.pleco.com/dictaddons.html . I have pleco
and am getting ready to start Chinese language study using the Chinese Made Easier (CME) books. I
downloaded the complete set of flashcards for CME from the above website link as well.

The flashcard files appear to already be in tab delimited format. I went through and deleted the
//Lesson #'s out of the file, but am having difficulties successfully importing these flashcards
into ZDT.

I have now deleted everything but just one lesson which has 33 vocabs. I have reformatted and
saved the file in Excel, Wordpad, & Notepad using what seems to me every possible combination
including Unicode, UT8, UT16, Text Only, Tab Delimited, etc. I have deleted the tabs and tried
using both "/" and ";" as the delimiters but that doesn't work either.

When I import, I am selecting the file, choosing the Custom setting, tried both UT8 and UT16, on
the next menu, I am putting S P (I have also put S, P) (and S [P]). These flashcards don't have
traditional or definition with them.

I have selected Use the dictionary and use the flashcard for the definition source. The import
will then start, go through it's process and then find nothing, or maybe 1 or 2 of the cards.

One time I saved in tab delimited format it put " " quotation marks around the Chinese text and
pinyin, and the import found 27 of the 33 vocabs, but it also included the "" quotation marks in
the flashcard. That time it automatically put the correct dictionary definition as well. 4 of the
missing 6 vocabs showed up as an error saying it was not found in the dictionary.

Ok, so to get to the point, is it possible to import these flashcard files into ZDT?

Thanks,
-Maku










jbradfor -

1) Try saving it using Word in Unicode format, read it in as UTF-16

2) Post a sample file and maybe someone can get it working.










flameproof -

1. The very slow start
2. That it's not easily possible to edit the data base*

* to give an example: 说 in most beginners circumstances is SHUO, but the Annotator makes it SHUI

I mainly just use it as a dictionary. For Flash I use Pleco.










Luobot -



Quote:

to give an example: 说 in most beginners circumstances is SHUO, but the Annotator makes it SHUI

I was also planning to ask about the Annotator's choice of translations, and what can be done
about it.

In fact, I started to prepare a list of typical, annoying subprime annotations, such as the
following:

的 dì --instead of--> de
了 liào --instead of--> le
都 dū --instead of--> dōu
还 huán --instead of--> hái
说 shuì --instead of--> shuō

It appears from the above examples that ZDT takes the first translation available to it (which you
can see by mousing over the above characters in the annotator). I'm not sure what determined that
particular order (though I guess it's the arbitrary order in CEDICT), but "de" and "le" have got
to be some of the most frequent characters.

How about a checkmark column in the dictionary so that, when there are multiple definitions for a
character, the user can check his definition of preference. The annotator would use the check
marked definition (if any) over the default. These preferences should be transportable from one
user to another (an export-import function) and from one version of ZDT to the next.

Thanks for considering it.










maku777 -

saving in Word unicode 8 format, then reading in ZDT unicode 16 format could not display the
Chinese characters...instead it displayed a long list of garbled characters.

If I save in Word unicode 8 format, then read in ZDT unicode 8 format, it displays the first
Chinese character and pinyin, but trying to import, the green progress bar goes half way through
and stops and no cards are imported.

I read through the forums extensively and saw a tip from the ZDT author to another user and he
recommended just copying and pasting....and that WORKS! I do have to chose the correct definition
for a few of the words on the list in each lesson though since I did not supply the definition in
my flashcard list.

Thanks for the help and the program.

-Maku

Here's a sample list of lesson 1 of the CME books though that I was trying to import..maybe you
can see what is wrong:

林 Lin2
先生 xian1sheng
王 Wang2
太太 bu4
英国人 Ying1guo2ren2












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Chinese Studies - Anybody coming from SF, CA? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Anybody coming from SF, CA?
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jrsam -

Anybody from San francisco, California coming to Beijing? I am an expat working in Beijing. My
family wants to send me my clothes and shoes to me. Using Fedex, Ups, etc. too expensive, all over
$100. My parents live in Santa Clara, but will be happy to meet anywhere nearby.

About 15-20lbs worth of stuff. 2 pairs of dress shoes, my ties, dress shirts/pants. If it won't
fit, you can take it out. I can pick you up from the beijing airport (taxi) as long as I am not at
work and show you around, get you adjusted. I am chinese-american, been in beijing for 1.5 years.
Originally studied at BLCU and living in Wudaokou. Now working at a foreign hospital in Beijing.

Check out my blog(so you know I'm real):
www.jrsam.blogspot.com

jrsam at hotmail dot com
msn: jrsam
thanks everyone.... and welcome to beijing!!
Sam.



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XueXueXue IQChinese Get beyond the plateau.Take your Mandarin to a new level.
Chinese in Lijiang Short term Chinese study in a beautiful town with a focus on daily life.
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roddy -

Moving to classifieds, deleting duplicate posts












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