Speak Chinese - Hakka slang and terminology help -

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Hakka slang and terminology help
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Mavericker -

Hello. I'm interesd in Hakka, and I'm doing research on Hakka slang and terminology.

I'd like to know, what are the Hakka slang terms for:

brat-mischievous child
hoodlum
punk
troublemaker
first-rater (striking or impressive person or thing)

Please let me know. Thank you.



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冷清 -

I want to help but I have no idea about Hakka










geek_frappa -

there is a hakka cedict being developed.

http://uk.geocities.com/cedict_h/hced/h-index.html
this is very very cool IMHO...












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Speak Chinese - basic pronunciation questions - Page 3 -

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basic pronunciation questions
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daydreamer -



Quote:

I can think of to explain the Chinese r to an English speaker is:
it's between the English r (as in round) and the French j (as in Jaques).

Thanks, I think it's useful. I found lots of English speakers can speak a lot or a little French.
I'm going to try it soon, and will tell you the result.




Quote:

As to the shi/si-thing: don't people in your city differ between shi2 and si4 by tone? Even if
they say si instead of shi for 10, there is still the difference between si2 (10) and si4 (4).
This is hard to hear for a foreigner, but it does show how important tones are.

Yes They do. but the bigest problem is, recognizing between 2nd tone and 4th tone is one of the
hardest part for him....



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leosmith -

The way I found r was to make the english 'er' sound, then push my tongue closer to the roof of my
mouth. Don't actually let it touch the roof, and keep the air flowing above it. It takes some
tongue adjustment and relaxation, but that seem to be it.

Here's another question - when a syllable has no initial, is it pronounced higher? The table I'm
using
http://lost-theory.org/chinese/phonetics/
pronounces the 'a' higher than 'ba', for example.










daydreamer -



Quote:

I can think of to explain the Chinese r to an English speaker is:
it's between the English r (as in round) and the French j (as in Jaques).

Yes this is very useful I tried two English speakers, they all success!










HashiriKata -



Quote:


Originally Posted by leosmith

Here's another question - when a syllable has no initial, is it pronounced higher?


I don't think so. I think the samples you referred to happened to be recorded at different times
when the reader happened to be in a different states of excitement










owen -



Quote:

zai can be described as "tzai" - because it's voiceless but unaspirated (compared to cai - tshai).
Of course, both consonants should be pronounced together.

Wouldn't a better description be "dzai" as 'd' is voiceless and unaspirated whereas 't' is
voiceless but aspirated?










atitarev -

My Quote


Quote:

zai can be described as "tzai" - because it's voiceless but unaspirated (compared to cai - tshai).
Of course, both consonants should be pronounced together.

Your Quote:


Quote:

Wouldn't a better description be "dzai" as 'd' is voiceless and unaspirated whereas 't' is
voiceless but aspirated?

Owen, how do you render that the initial "z" is voiceless? For "cai" you can have "tsai", for
"zai" - "tzai". Better still, leave pinyin as it is and explain what the sounds are like, which is
the usual method. Describing one language sounds with the letters of another is always a problem.










owen -



Quote:

Describing one language sounds with the letters of another is always a problem.

I agree. But i still think "dzai" is a lot more intuitive and phonetically accurate due to the
simple fact that when an english speaker sees a 't' at the beginning of a word they are going to
aspirate.
What do you mean when you say the initial 'z' is voiceless? Certainly not to my ears and mouth.










leosmith -



Quote:

z [ts] unaspirated c (halfway between beds and bets), (more common example is suds)

(from wikipedia)



Quote:

I don't think so. I think the samples you referred to happened to be recorded at different times
when the reader happened to be in a different states of excitement

Heh heh, thanks HashiriKata. Maybe he sat on a feather?










atitarev -



Quote:

What do you mean when you say the initial 'z' is voiceless? Certainly not to my ears and mouth.

I was going to explain but this site will do it better than me:

Search for the string (under Consonants):


Quote:

There are no voiced consonants in Chinese.

http://olimu.com/Notes/ChinesePronunciation.htm
Don't be affected by pinyin, Wade-Giles system reflects better the difference between Chinese
consonants (also in the above site) in that respect. I prefer hanyu pinyin still.










daydreamer -

I just found that when you pronouce "z", pronouce it as "dz" and at the meanwhile make your tongue
touch the bottom teeth, that sound alright.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Foreign words/names trasnliteration/pronunciation in Chinese - any changes needed? -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Foreign words/names trasnliteration/pronunciation in Chinese - any changes needed?
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View Poll Results: Foreign words/names transliteration/pronunciation in Chinese
Leave it as it is now. I don't want any changes. Please comment. 3 50.00%
Need a new script (somewhat like Japanese kana, Korean Hangul). Please comment. 1 16.67%
Write foreign names in Roman scripts or provide pronunciation in Roman letters. Please comment. 3 5
0.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll



Page 1 of 4 1 23 > »






atitarev -

Hi all,

I heard different opinions about foreign words/names transliteration/pronunciation in Chinese -
learners and natives. Is everyone happy with the status quo? That is, transliterating foreign
words into Chinese using Chinese characters somewhat reminding the original pronunciation and
adjusting to make it sound or mean better?

Issues with this approach are well-known, names become unrecognisable. It's probably OK for
well-known names.

Our Chinese teacher mentioned that foreign names are often written in 2 versions - Chinese
characters and Roman in brackets to show the pronunciation and the original spelling.

Questions:
1) Do you think this needs to be reformed or should it stay unchanged? Which method is needed?
a) New phonetic characters or diacritics to show missing sounds/combinations.
b) borrow and adjust characters to Mandarin from another language/script - Japanese, Korean,
English, etc.
c) No change but provide Roman/other scripts spelling next to the Chinese characters.
2) If you're against the reform (note: I am NOT suggesting to reform Chinese language but the
methods to render some foreign words.
3) Do you think Chinese people need to learn to pronounce SOME sounds/combinations that don't
exist in Chinese, V, R, etc. I had a discussion with Japanese people about their phonetical system
an dif they are happy with it. A few languages borrowed foreign sounds that didn't exist in their
language, a good example is German.

Please don't overreact, by no means I don't want to offend Chinese culture and I like Chinese
language and its writing system.

The vote allows multiple choices. I selected the bottom 2, as I think something needs to change
but I'd like to see your opinion on this.



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wix -

Increased use of roman script is the best solution. It eliminates ambiguity and it accommodates
most of the world's languages.

It is not necessary to expect Chinese people to pronounce the words perfectly. Non-Chinese
speakers won't pronounce words written in pinyin perfectly either. However, the written form will
prevent confusion and when spoken it is more likely to be intelligible than words transliterated
using characters.










wushijiao -

Since most people can’t pronounce foreign names, and instead just pronounce them in a pinyinized
way, I say keep it as it is.










wix -



Quote:


Originally Posted by wushijiao

Since most people can’t pronounce foreign names, and instead just pronounce them in a pinyinized
way, I say keep it as it is.


Of course they pronounce them in a pinyinised way. They are just reading the characters.

For example, they will read 湯母克魯斯 as tangmu kelusi. However, if presented with Tom
Cruise instead, they might say something that more closely resembles the English pronunciation.










wushijiao -



Quote:

Of course they pronounce them in a pinyinised way. They are just reading the characters

.

Haha! I meant when you speak your name to them. For example, almost no one who has not studied
English can pronounce the name Bill. Try getting a 50 year-old man to say that name (I have many
times)! You'll settle for 比尔, or some sort of Chinese name sooner or later. Try saying names
like Hans Blix to Chinese people. You are as likely to get older Chinese to magically understand
final constonants as you are to get older Americans to start pronouncing tones in Chinese names.
It just doesn't register.


I suppose in a generation or so, when the majority of people will have had practice at pronouncing
foreign sounds, it might be easier to convert to another system.










Quest -

I suggest keeping the characters approach but standardizing what characters to use for what sound.
The only reason the roman alphabet would work better is because every country has some sort of
romanization in place for its names in order to communicate with the western world. But this is
not an intrinsic advantage of the roman alphabet, more to do with the status of English. Japanese
and Korean place names, for example, do not cause confusions in China.










gato -



Quote:

Japanese and Korean place names, for example, do not cause confusions in China.

Isn't that only true those city names that mutually agreed upon Chinese character names? But the
controversy over changing 汉城 to 首尓 (Seoul) shows that this isn't always going to be the
case.










atitarev -

Japanese and Korean names don't cause confusion as long as they are not pronounced, IMHO, well
almost. Shénhù (神户) has nothing in common with Kōbe (神戸) or Dàbǎn (大坂/大阪)
with Ōsaka (大阪)

Even if Osaka were rendered phonetically, there is no common character in Mandarin with KA
pronunciation used for foreign words, so it would be something like Ou-sa-jia. KA is not hard to
pronounce for a Mandarin speaker (there is KE, KAO, etc), should there be new characters created
for sound combinations non-existent in Mandarin?

EDIT: thanks Gato










gato -



Quote:

Even if Osaka were rendered phonetically, there is no character in Mandarin with KA pronunciation

You can try 欧萨卡. Kind of ugly, but that's how transliterations are, which is why most
foreigners and foreign companies in China take up a Chinese-sounding name instead.










Quest -

IMO, any method that would require adding sounds to the language should be avoided, because it
will never accomodate sounds of all the languages in the world. Keep it systematic, simple, and
local.












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Speak Chinese - Popup Chinese Translator for Firefox!! - Page 2 -

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Popup Chinese Translator for Firefox!!
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digmen1 -

Hi xentropic

I am stratring to teach myself to write basic Chinese.

You will imagine what a marvelous tool your pop up sounds !

I have installed it.

But like the others I need the CEDICT.

I think you should mention this in your description of your program and provide a link to where we
can get it and how we should install it and where, and which version we should download as there
seem to be 3 versions.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Digby
New Zealand



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necroflux -

I made this post in one of the other threads that got deleted, but:

1.01 doesn't require any dictionaries installed, so no worries about that. This extension is
incredible, it's simple and fast. That said the dictionary that is included could use some work in
order for the extension to reach its full potential. I'll see if I can't help work on the
extension.

In any case this is a must have extension already, even with the dictionary issues. Very useful
stuff.










gato -

I have the extension working, and it is indeed very fast. I haven't tried it out fully yet, but if
the dictionary is incomplete, maybe you get the Adsotrans dictionary adapted for it. The Adso
dictionary uses the CEDICT dictionary as one of its bases, I believe.

http://www. /showth...ghlight=source
Adso dictionary : open source?
http://www.adsotrans.com/










xentropic -

first, if anyone has download the first version i posted it wont work, so get the one that finally
is posted on mozilla (ver 0.1.1) which will work fine. it has the CEDICT file included

yea if theres more dictionaries it would be easy to add them to the search, even without the
entries you can usually figure out the meaning from going character by character, but ill see what
else is out there










atitarev -

Xentropic,

I PM'ed you. My setup is not working.

Gato, please tell me what you did and how start up this extension.

I also have Rikaichan, maybe that's why it's not working, I don't see it in the tools or context
menus.










gato -

atitarev, xentropic said that since his extension is modified from rikaichan, it can't currently
coexist with rikaichan due to resource name conflicts. But he's working on correcting that for the
next release. He said you can work around this for the moment by creating a new profile for
Firefox.










atitarev -

Thanks, Gato. I thought the message was related to version 1.0.










flameproof -

I just installed and tried 0.1.1.

It works perfectly. Did only do a short test so far. Just hat to install from the mozilla site and
nothing else.

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/3349/

Well done!










flameproof -

ok, not that i want to promote my own posting....... but...

I had a look here:

http://www. /showthread.php?t=12706

Post #6 by Quest was:

....
黐线，.....
....

黐 gives some sort of japanese pop up. I can do a screenshot if you can't get the same result.

But not a big issue though....










nubix -

xentropic, thank you, it is very useful.












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Learn Chinese online - Chinese Mythology - Bai Gui Yexing -

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Chinese Mythology - Bai Gui Yexing
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alenehan -

I thought you may like to see this. It is a very long (5m) scroll that seems to be a procesion of
characters and monsters from mythology (as well as lots I don't recognise.) I would love to know
what you all think. I have been unable to fully translate the text. As you can imagine the photos
attached don't show the whole scroll so if you are interested in seeing the full thing have a look
here:

http://fotoclam.com/public/pview/28/pano4.jpg

The photo is about 700k so beware if you are on dialup.



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skylee -

百鬼夜行 (ひゃっきやぎょう / hyakkiyagyo) is japanese mythology and the painting is
japanese.



Quote:

Hyaki-yakou : Nightly parade of one hundred demons. A common theme of Japanese art and literature,
starting the Heian period. A 14th century scroll of this subject is noted for its horrid contents.
A good example is the work of Toriyama Sekien.. Toriyama frequently painted ghosts, demons and
goblins, collecting them in illustrated books such as Hyakkiyagyo (One Hundred Ghosts) and Zoku
Hyakki.

After Toriyama came Hokusai, Yoshitoshi and Utagawa. The Meiji Era boasted of Kyosai Kawanabe
(1831~1839) an outstanding ghost painter, who created “Gyosai Hyakki Gadan” published
posthumously.

A hyaki-yagyō is a scroll depicting this parade of demons, starting with the 14th century scroll
in Shinju Temple, Kyoto. Many of the demons are mononoke spirit-infested inanimate objects,
especially discarded kitchen implements or containers returning to haunt the home that cast them
out.

source












alenehan -

Thank you Skylee












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Chinese Class - English&Chinese exchange -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
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Alissia -

Hi, I'm a student majoring Enlish. I want to find a native Enlish speaker as my language partner,
and I can improve your Chinese in return.I study in CUGB(China University of Geosciences)near
Wudaokou and across from BLCU(Beijing Language and Culture University). So anyone who studies in
BLCU or live near Wudaodou can contact me at
celeryfar@hotmail.com





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Alissia -

Sorry I have given the wrong Email .It should be celeryfar@hotmail.com












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Free Chinese Lesson - Opinions on Laowai -

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Hero Doug -

Just came across this article, wondering if I could have some feedback from others about it.

http://asia.elliottback.com/archives...ren-vs-laowai/

I've personally never come across the term myself, I always hear waiguoren.

I've been told it's a very contexual word like Nigger (Not to offend anyone). It can be extremly
rude, or not, depending on how, and mainly who uses it.



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dalaowai -

I think that foreigners in China are very sensitive to the term "laowai", especially when the
laowai is living in a rural area.

I remember living in rural Zhejiang and feeling very discriminated against on a daily basis. To
add insult to injury, in most cases where I was being discriminated, the term laowai flew about
quite freely.

I no longer feel offended by the term, as I will quite bluntly refer to those individuals as
"xiangxiaren" or "waidiren".

But yeah, a lot of foreigners hate the use of this term, as it's often used to stereotype or
discriminate against non-asian foreigners.










xichg -

i am wondering which is worse, being call 'laowai' in china and being called 'alien' in the states.










Qcash3 -

When I was in China I never heard the term Laowai, but then again I didn't know what it was at the
time so I probably didn't pay attention to it. In my case, the locals were so shocked to see a
black American , that they spent their breath wondering aloud if I was really from America or
Africa, and forgot to throw LaoWai out there . Since I am going back in a few weeks I will keep my
ears open for the term, but I don't think it will bother me too much.










daxia -

I live in Southern China and I guess the people here are especially rude. Being called LaoWai is
nothing. 鬼老 is allot worse and I hear it everyday.

Allthough, I have started to reply with "东亚病夫" which the Chinese DON'T like to be called.
This has almost gotten me into 3 fights recently, and it's not very smart to start a fight on the
street in China because you can be sure that the chinese guy you are fighting with will have 20
friends nearby that will help him.










roddy -



Quote:

i am wondering which is worse, being call 'laowai' in china and being called 'alien' in the states.

Or indeed in China. Did you have a point?

I've heard laowai used with nothing but respect, and waiguoren used with a mouthful of contempt.
As far as I'm concerned it's the attitude of the speaker that counts. Neither, for me, are loaded
terms. The use of 外国朋友 though . . .










woliveri -

I hear LaoWai all the time here in Shanghai and it doesn't bother me a bit. In fact, when I hear
it I sometimes just reply back in Chinese, "wo bu shi laowai, wo shi zhongguo ren" with a smile
and be on my way.

What pisses me off way, way more than being called Laowai is people cutting in front of me while
I'm politely waiting in line. For that I've nearly been ready to confront someone.

But I don't and just put it with it realizing that it's done to everyone here regardless of race.

So for the most part, I'm getting over the line cutting now too (I think).










gato -

老 (Lao)-something is usually used as a term of endearment, such as in 老张、老李 (or at
worst as a kind of joke, i.e. referring to Mao Zedong as 老毛). I agree it's a bit xenophobic to
focus on the 外, but then 外国人 is no better in that regard.

A really derogatory term would be something like 鬼子, or 小日本 which is often used against
the Japanese.










Long Zhiren -

There are derogatory terms as mentioned before.

However, the 老 terms aren't exactly derogatory, more endearing as said before. If you think that
老外 is a problem, you need to address all of these other informal terms (they're all used like
tongue-in-cheek nicknames):
老头 old guy
老婆 wife (I rib my wife with this all the time.)
老公 husband (My wife ribs me all the time with this.)
老白 white guy
老黑 black guy
老黃 yellow guy
老中 Chinese guy
老大 oldest sibling
老幼 youngest sibling
米老鼠 Mickey Mouse
唐老鸭 Donald Duck

Exept for the wife term, I've only encountered these terms applying to males. Females don't get
老...

Now if you replace 老 with 肥, 豬, etc then you've got problems... Then, once the 蛋 words
start showing up, you've got more problems.










bhchao -

Laowai is used commonplace in the states where there is a mixing of Asian and Caucasian residents.
I hear it used often in the presence of the latter, with no negative effect.

大佬粗 used to be a compliment during the Mao Zedong era. Of course that could be less so today.












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