HSK Exam - Chinese name, help please? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Chinese name, help please?
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LostInHeaven -

Short story: I'm half chinese and I've always wanted a chinese name. Now that I am 18, I can
finally change (my mom wouldn't let me before). I asked my father if he could give me a chinese
name and he did. But the problem is, his English is very poor and he doesn't know how to spell it
in English letters.

He wrote me:

Kim - Gold
Lan - lovely girl

But I'm not sure it's correct? Could someone please help me with this? I can't speak Chinese
fluently I might be wrong. I thought "huáng jīn" meant gold, or "jīn". And "lan" orchid.



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skylee -

Is your father Cantonese? If so then Kim = Gold makes sense.

I guess the name is 金蘭 (traditional) / 金兰 (simplified). In Hanyu Pinyin it is Jinlan. Yes
it means golden orchid, and it also refers to very close friendship as in phrases like
義結金蘭 and 金蘭姐妹.

And it is a very old fashioned name.










rootfool -

Agree with skylee.
But I'm afraid 蘭 didn't means lovely girl.And.I don't know any "LAN" means this.

May be it's just because too many people named 蘭 or 嵐 so it sounds old fashioned.










JimmyFan2006 -

u r right! 'HuangJin' is gold , and 'Lan' means blue.
黄金 gold ,蓝 blue










LostInHeaven -

skylee
Is your father Cantonese?

I don't think so? He speaks... I think it's called Fujian Taiwanese?? Minnan?










Lu -

I'm fairly sure that in Minnanyu 金 is also Kim, so that would make sense.

Minnanyu ('Minnan language') is the dialect spoken in both Fujian (formerly known as Hokkien) and
Taiwan. In Taiwan it's usually called Taiwanese.












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Learn Chinese online - An Introduction, my plans and some questoins - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
An Introduction, my plans and some questoins
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simonlaing -

Since money is not your main object I agree with Roddy that looking at a University job would be
best for you as it will give you stability.

You could teach IT and your wife English if she wants. Most school ask for an Undergraduate degree
but will take other certificates if you don't have that.

Bigger city schools in Beijing and Shanghai will pay more, but the cost of living will be more
aswell.

My friend the Games design professor teaches with an interpretor and all code is written in
English.
In looking for Chinese schools for your kids I would look for some of the experimental schools
that are attached to Unversities for teachers (also called normal universities) . These use
different techniques and might be more interesting than the usual chinese school which has more
pressure. Either way until the kids get to high school it is more relaxed.
The Nanjing normal Univeristy experiment school had some exchange students for Europe who told me
about experimental schools. Plus the school are usually right on campus or next to it so it makes
for easy pickups.

Good luck,
Simon



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Learning Chinese - 你知道？ -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
你知道？
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jakiestar -

ni bu zhi dao wo .......
你不 知 道 我 知 道
你不知道我知道你不知道我知道你不知道我知道你不知道？

你不知道我，知道你，不知道我知道你，不知道我知道你不知道，我知道，�
��不知道！

你不知道？我知道你！不知道我知道你！不知道我知道你不知道！我知道你�
��知道！

你，不知道我！知道你不知道我！知道你不知道我知道你不知道我！知道你�
��知道！

你不知道！我知道！你不知道我知道！你不知道我知道你不知道！我知道你�
��知道！

你不知道我知道。你不知道我知道你不知道。我知道你不知道！我知道你不�
��道！

你不知道我，知道你不知道我，知道你不知道我知道你不知道，我知道你不�
��道！

你不知道我知道你不知道？我知道你不知道我知道你不知道！我知道你不知�
��！
do u understand?



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HashiriKata -



Quote:


Originally Posted by jakiestar

do u understand?


Understand what? It's the same in every language.










gato -

Sounds like Donald Rumsfeld.

http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/
The Poetry of D.H. Rumsfeld

The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.










studentyoung -



Quote:

do u understand?

Before reading your post, I guessed that I could understand. However, after reading it, I
understand that I can’t understand! Do you understand? Oh, my god!

The Unknown
未知未识
（translated by studentyoung）

As we know,
如吾等所知
There are known knowns.
世有已知之已识之事
There are things we know we know.
即吾等知，世有吾等所识之事
We also know
吾等亦知
There are known unknowns.
世有已知之未识之事
That is to say
即所谓
We know there are some things
吾等知世有其事
We do not know.
而吾等未识
But there are also unknown unknowns,
然亦有未知之未识之事
The ones we don't know
即吾等不知此事
We don't know.
乃吾等未识。

Thanks!












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Chinese Pinyin - Help: the most appropriate translation for "Have a good day" - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Help: the most appropriate translation for "Have a good day"
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muyongshi -

大家快乐。

Just chipping in with the kuaile stuff too.

我要睡觉。



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ChineseSpeaker -

I am in Shanghai, and I am a native Chinese speakers.

I have some foreign friends who are living in China. They come to china to learn Chinese, to find
a job. So I become interested in helping them with Chinese learning.

Nice to meet you!










adrianlondon -

Good to meet you, too. It's always good to have Chinese people posting to these forums! It saves
having a load of language learners all trying to help other language learners, which can lead to
mistakes being perpetuated.

As for 再聊 - cool. Not heard that before, but I like it.










muyongshi -



Quote:

which can lead to mistakes being perpetuated.

Kind of like the horrific vision I had of the result of English teaching when I was in a qiang
village in the mountains listening to their "English teacher" (who was self taught through
television) and imagining if I multiplied his bad English including pronunciation into all his
students and then imagined those students teaching others....not a pretty picture.










HashiriKata -



Quote:


Originally Posted by ChineseSpeaker

I noticed you location is UK, are you an English?


Yes, a pretence one .
I hope you'll enjoy helping us and be with us for the next 10.000 years!












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Chinese language - pinyin tone rule questions -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
pinyin tone rule questions
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leosmith -

I know this stuff has been discussed, but I can't find it, so I'll ask again.
1. is pinyin normally written with a single tone regardless of whether tone rules change it? If
so, even bu4?
2. in order to tell if tone rules affect a syllable, I have to know where the word ends/starts,
right? So how do you do that? Is it just a matter of experience and context? This is off topic,
but when you read characters, is it easy to confuse this issue - to think a character stands by
itself instead of being part of the next word for example?



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imron -

Different people have different opinions, and it's not uncommon to see both methods used.
According to pinyin.info however, tone sandhi should not be indicated and only the original tones
should be used.

As far as tone rules affecting a syllable, the tone changes still apply even across words,
e.g.你满意了吗？ (nǐ mǎnyì le ma) should be read ní mǎnyì le ma, which is to say that
the tone changes are still in effect even across word boundaries. What's more important than word
beginning/end, is pauses in the sentence, as usually the tone change doesn't carry over between a
pause. Knowing how to break up a sentence and where to pause when reading is a matter a practice
and experience. Doing lots of listening also helps in this regard.










Senzhi -

I'll second that. Formally, tone-sandhi does not apply to Pinyin, only to spoken Mandarin.
Like in any language, rules are more consistent in written language than in speach ...

Modern teaching materials should reflect this. Older materials (or the informal ones) do often use
tone-sandhi in Pinyin (and confuse about 99% of students of Mandarin).










xianu -

as far as the ways some words change that are not classed as tone sandhi (yi1/yi4/yi2 for one, and
bu4/bu2 for no/not), changes are usually indicated in the pinyin, at least as far as textbooks go.
There is a rule for these. Correct me if I am wrong, or have left out something:

for yi1 一, if the word following it is a 4th tone, the yi1 generally becomes a yi2
(一个yi2ge4), if the word following is a 2nd tone, the yi1 becomes 4th (一条yi4tiao2)

for bu4 不, if the word following it is a 4th tone, it becomes a 2nd bu2 (不是bu2shi4)

for both cases, the pinyin is written as it is spoken. For practical (communicative) purposes, as
long as the pauses between words/phrases and the pronunciation are correct, it doesn't really
matter. People generally understand you in context.










roddy -

See also here. Seems the rules say no, but textbooks will often indicate the changes - in my
experience they'll specify what they're going to do at the start and sometimes draw attention to
changes with bold or italic print.












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Learn Mandarin online - Mandarin Chinese...? - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Mandarin Chinese...?
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roddy -

'copy the melody' is not 'automatic' - you're asking people to consciously pay attention to and
replicate tonal patterns. Completely different from your original 'don't bother'.



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flameproof -

'copy the melody' is for me an 'automatic' reflex. The same way I would pick up Scottish or
Australian.

You just have to be aware that Mandarin has tones and stick to what you hear. Learning tones by
itself without context would be impossible for me.

Actually, my best example is always Cantonese. It's tonal, but the locals don't know that. Why
learn something that locals don't know?

Similar things apply to grammar. I don't know any English grammar (compare to Chinese that learn
English), my English is still WAY WAY better then most of them, even though their grammar
knowledge is much higher.










bomaci -



Quote:

Actually, my best example is always Cantonese. It's tonal, but the locals don't know that. Why
learn something that locals don't know?

I agree. I try to do all my mandarin study by listening and imitating (chorusing). I think it
might be a good idea to study the tones after having done a lot of listening and imitating.
Because sometimes you may hear a word which you want to look up and you might need to
identify the tones in order to learn it. But when you learn a new word or expression you should
first focus on the melody of it and after having gotten that down you could try to analyze what
the tones are.










Quest -



Quote:

Actually, my best example is always Cantonese. It's tonal, but the locals don't know that.

That is very true. I had spoken it for some 20+ years and only found out a few years ago.










Lu -

Native speakers can speak their language without knowing the theory behind it. French kids don't
know about word's gender until they learn it in school, and German kids don't know what cases are
until they learn it, yet such knowledge can come in extremely handy when you learn it as a second
language. Same goes for tones. Just the fact that native speakers don't realize they have them,
doesn't mean we don't need to learn them. Sure you can learn just by immersion, but I think it
might take a lot longer, especially for adults and especially for a language so different from
Western languages as Chinese.

To the OP: I'd still be careful with that Kanji dictionary for learning Chinese, it's good enough
to pick up the odd character, but for words and phrases and more it's better to get a book for
Chinese.
Also, shu1 sometimes means writing, but usually it means book.

Good luck learning!










bomaci -



Quote:

Just the fact that native speakers don't realize they have them, doesn't mean we don't need to
learn them. Sure you can learn just by immersion, but I think it might take a lot longer,
especially for adults and especially for a language so different from Western languages as Chinese.

Actually the only advantage I see with learning about the tones is that you can look up words that
you hear more easily. I think the only way to learn tonal languages reliably is to listen and
learn words by listening. You don't need immersion to do that. You can watch movies, listen to
audiobooks and so on.










OneEye -

The IME I use requires me to know which tone the word is. Imagine having to scroll through every
character pronounced shi (I counted 74) just because you didn't bother to study tones. My Chinese
friend at work always tells me the tone of a new word when she teaches me. She writes the
character and the pinyin. The tones aren't very hard to learn. A couple hours with the FSI
pronunciation and Romanization module and you'll be set, without having to devote much more time
at all to the tones, except some tone changes.










bomaci -



Quote:

The IME I use requires me to know which tone the word is

Then I think you should consider switching IMEs Even if you know the tone you will have too many
choices. In wenlin there are 75 characters pronounced shì. Furthermore it is not about not
bothering to studying the tones. It is about remembering the tones as sounds instead of as
numbers. When you see the character 中 you should be able to hear in your head how it is
pronounced. You shouldn't think of it as z-h-o-n-g-1.










OneEye -



Quote:

Then I think you should consider switching IMEs Even if you know the tone you will have too many
choices. In wenlin there are 75 characters pronounced shì.

I'm kind of confused. How would not typing the tone narrow it down? Please explain.

Which IME do you recommend?



Quote:

Furthermore it is not about not bothering to studying the tones. It is about remembering the tones
as sounds instead of as numbers.

I never said anything about remembering the tones as numbers. I remember them as sounds. This has
nothing to do with studying or not studying the tones.



Quote:

When you see the character 中 you should be able to hear in your head how it is pronounced. You
shouldn't think of it as z-h-o-n-g-1.

Sure, abandon pinyin and just learn each character by sound. Makes a lot of sense.

I don't have to spell it out in my head, if that's what you're getting at. But, 中 is pronounced
"zhōng." First tone, high tone, level tone, whatever you want to call it. It helps me to know the
pinyin, so I can be sure I'm pronouncing it correctly and in the right tone. Had I learned by
sound only, I would have thought 很 was pronounced hén, because the first several times I heard
it, it was before a 3rd tone word. I just think that trying to absorb tones over time by listening
doesn't make much sense when you can devote just a few hours to studying them and then have a
solid grasp and never really have to worry about it again.

My method is working quite well for me. With repetition, the pinyin becomes an afterthought,
because I hear the words as I read them. Pinyin is just a means of knowing how to pronounce the
word correctly. If you think you're hearing q but you're really hearing ch, you may have serious
pronunciation problems, all because you didn't bother to study tones/pinyin/pronunciation (not you
personally, but what your argument suggests). I had this exact problem before I learned pinyin and
the difference between retroflex and palatal consonants with the FSI Pronunciation & Romanization
module (also with x/sh, j/zh, and even z/c) and once I devoted some time to studying them, I can
hear and pronounce the differences very clearly without thinking about it.

And it is about not bothering. It doesn't take much time, really. And IMO it will save you trouble
in the long run.










bomaci -



Quote:

I'm kind of confused. How would not typing the tone narrow it down? Please explain.
Which IME do you recommend?

It is much easier to use an IME which is good at guessing. I.e. where you can type an entire
sentence and have it guess right. One of the best IMEs for this is the google one:
http://tools.google.com/pinyin/index.html
I typed the following in it "woyonglegugedeshurufalaidazhejuhua" and out came
我用了谷歌的输入法来打这句话.



Quote:

Sure, abandon pinyin and just learn each character by sound. Makes a lot of sense.

I don't quite understand why it doesn't make sense. Surely it is entirely possible to learn
mandarin just by listening up to quite a high level. After you run out of audiocourses there is
audiobooks, movies tv-series and a lot of other things you can use. And the 很 problem won't be a
problem for very long if you hear it pronounced in several contexts. I don't say that you
shouldn't learn pinyin at all but I think it is better to prioritize listening in the beginning to
get used to the sounds. I am doing a bit of dabbling in Cantonese right now and I haven't spent
any time actively learning the different romanization systems. I first listened and imitated (or
"chorused") a lot of sentences. Then I started to look at the romanization. However I only use the
romanization to help me learn the sounds, I learn the tones entirely by listening. In my view you
can learn tonal languages by listening just as you learn other languages. You just learn to
remember the sounds of words.












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Learn Mandarin online - Paid subscription problems -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
Paid subscription problems
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roddy -

This is only relevant to people who donate to the forums via the subscriptions and who set up a
recurring subscription via Paypal.

It seems that while the first payment works fine and allows you to activate the 'Forums Supporter'
tag under your user name if you want to, subsequent payments aren't being logged by the forums
software and you lose that tag. I've gone through the payments manually and think I've fixed this
for everyone it should be fixed for, but it's quite possible I missed a couple as I can't always
tie up paypal email addresses with forums users easily.

So if you have a) paid, b) can't activate the 'Forums Supporter' tag here and c) want to, let me
know and I'll fix it for you with apologies.

The paid subscriptions, for anyone who's interested, come with absolutely no extra privileges bar
the little tag under the user name (which is optional). I don't make them very prominent as costs
are easily covered by advertising, but the function is there for anyone who wants it - just be
aware that your money will not be spent on bandwidth and hosting costs, it will be spent on beer.



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Shadowdh -



Quote:

just be aware that your money will not be spent on bandwidth and hosting costs, it will be spent
on beer.

I love honesty... but I love a person who spreads the wealth even more... so beers on Roddy...












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